3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists

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Mar 28, 2016
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And yet and still again, John 3:16 nullifies that belief. That Jesus died on the cross and paid the sin debt for only those God predetermined to salvation.
I would offer. We are living in a corrupted body that leads to death. Christ has come to give us the reward of His work or three day labor of love. Living faith...... previously having none, zero. A new born again faith by which we can understand, hearing His voice and therefore by which we can seek after Him as a understanding of two walking together..

John 3:16 is defined in the next two verses the whole context is needed.

.John 3:16 shows us judgement (death) as in :"You shall surely die" has already begun with Adam ..Its appointed for all men do die once. Only those given a new spirit and heart will raise on the last day . Those who names are found in the Lambs book of life from the foundation when God performed the will of his work .They alone will rise and receive the promise on the last day when we receive our new incorruptible bodies . Neither male nor female, Jew nor gentile.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:17-18

He gives us the power as the authority of his name that works in those who beleive so that we can beleive. Those who do perform that doing it in their own name are like those in Mathew 7 . The many that Christ said depart from me I never knew you calling them workers of iniquity. He did not say good works were not performed that the gospel did not do its work of Christ. But rather who performed them? The Potter or the clay, the work God is working out his will, as a work of faith ?.

We must be careful how we hear what the Holy Spirits says to the churches or denominations.

He did not come into the world to judge it. It was already judged in the garden when God saw pride in the heart of his most beautiful created messenger Satan .The glory of God departed .It would seem at the end of day three. .God corrupted the whole creation. The death sentence as in dying had come as the wrath of God revealed by what the eyes see even today . . . .death.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Ezekiah 2813-14
 

Whispered

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I would offer. We are living in a corrupted body that leads to death. Christ has come to give us the reward of His work or three day labor of love. Living faith...... previously having none, zero. A new born again faith by which we can understand, hearing His voice and therefore by which we can seek after Him as a understanding of two walking together..

John 3:16 is defined in the next two verses the whole context is needed.

.John 3:16 shows us judgement (death) as in :"You shall surely die" has already begun with Adam ..Its appointed for all men do die once. Only those given a new spirit and heart will raise on the last day . Those who names are found in the Lambs book of life from the foundation when God performed the will of his work .They alone will rise and receive the promise on the last day when we receive our new incorruptible bodies . Neither male nor female, Jew nor gentile.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:17-18

He gives us the power as the authority of his name that works in those who beleive so that we can beleive. Those who do perform that doing it in their own name are like those in Mathew 7 . The many that Christ said depart from me I never knew you calling them workers of iniquity. He did not say good works were not performed that the gospel did not do its work of Christ. But rather who performed them? The Potter or the clay, the work God is working out his will, as a work of faith ?.

We must be careful how we hear what the Holy Spirits says to the churches or denominations.

He did not come into the world to judge it. It was already judged in the garden when God saw pride in the heart of his most beautiful created messenger Satan .The glory of God departed .It would seem at the end of day three. .God corrupted the whole creation. The death sentence as in dying had come as the wrath of God revealed by what the eyes see even today . . . .death.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Ezekiah 2813-14
For clarification on my part please, would you elaborate upon what you said above? I've made the text bold and colored it red for easy identification.
Are you speaking of the third day of creation as is related to us in the Book of Genesis?
Thank you for your assistance to my understanding your post.
 

Whispered

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That is your misinterpretation of John 3:16. You do not take in consideration that all scriptures must harmonize in order to see the truth of Christ's doctrine. The natural man, 1 Cor 2:14, will not believe in the things of the Spirit, until he has been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and then is able to discern spiritual things and become a "believer". God so loved the world of those believers and loved not the natural world, nor the things that are in that world. 1 John 2:15.
Yes, you repeatedly invoke the harmonization factor and yet unconditional election does not harmonize with the Gospel. Therefore, the entire premise of TULIP fails due to that one factor.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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For clarification on my part please, would you elaborate upon what you said above? I've made the text bold and colored it red for easy identification.
Are you speaking of the third day of creation as is related to us in the Book of Genesis?
Thank you for your assistance to my understanding your post.
Thanks I can try.

God according to Ezekiel 28 saw pride in the heart of the father of lies in the garden (the six days). Beginning on day four the glory of God as the light of the world had departed. The corrupted time keepers (under the sun) Where switched on two lights . The Sun to governing the day and moon the flections governing the night to represent evil . Dark or night is not pronounced good.

It would seem the word three is used throughout the scripture to indicate the end of a matter .

In the new heavens and earth the Sun and moon will not be needed and again the glory of the lord and the lamb will be the light. There will be no more darkness or night (Revelation 21)

Day 4 below. . .

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Genesis 1:14 -19

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Revelation 21: 22-25
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Yes, you repeatedly invoke the harmonization factor and yet unconditional election does not harmonize with the Gospel. Therefore, the entire premise of TULIP fails due to that one factor.
Love is not without conditions . Its condition as the first work and foremost is. . . . love is longsuffering and therefore it can be kind .I think 15 conditions .

His love is "unfailing" all he calls will come but not without condition. He must to do the first work and give a person ears to hear His longsuffering love. which without no man could hear the gospel
 

Whispered

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Love is not without conditions . Its condition as the first work and foremost is. . . . love is longsuffering and therefore it can be kind .I think 15 conditions .

His love is "unfailing" all he calls will come but not without condition. He must to do the first work and give a person ears to hear His longsuffering love. which without no man could hear the gospel
Scripture support please.

Are you a Calvinist? Do you ascribe to the TULIP formula?
 

Whispered

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Thanks I can try.

God according to Ezekiel 28 saw pride in the heart of the father of lies in the garden (the six days). Beginning on day four the glory of God as the light of the world had departed. The corrupted time keepers (under the sun) Where switched on two lights . The Sun to governing the day and moon the flections governing the night to represent evil . Dark or night is not pronounced good.

It would seem the word three is used throughout the scripture to indicate the end of a matter .

In the new heavens and earth the Sun and moon will not be needed and again the glory of the lord and the lamb will be the light. There will be no more darkness or night (Revelation 21)

Day 4 below. . .

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Genesis 1:14 -19

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Revelation 21: 22-25
True, the number 3 indicates completion in scripture, though not to the same degree as does the number 7.

In the end and on the sixth day God gazed upon all that He created and pronounced the whole of it good. The Book of Genesis chapter 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
This would mean He also decreed the darkness was good. This also indicates God did not leave His creation at any time during the creative process.
In the Book of Isaiah chapter 45 we are told God said He is the light and the darkness.
Isaiah 45 I am the Lord, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form light and create darkness;
I make well-being and create calamity;
I am the Lord, who does all these things.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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True, the number 3 indicates completion in scripture, though not to the same degree as does the number 7.

In the end and on the sixth day God gazed upon all that He created and pronounced the whole of it good. The Book of Genesis chapter 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
This would mean He also decreed the darkness was good. This also indicates God did not leave His creation at any time during the creative process.
In the Book of Isaiah chapter 45 we are told God said He is the light and the darkness.
Isaiah 45 I am the Lord, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form light and create darkness;
I make well-being and create calamity;
I am the Lord, who does all these things.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
True, the number 3 indicates completion in scripture, though not to the same degree as does the number 7.

In the end and on the sixth day God gazed upon all that He created and pronounced the whole of it good. The Book of Genesis chapter 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
This would mean He also decreed the darkness was good. This also indicates God did not leave His creation at any time during the creative process.
In the Book of Isaiah chapter 45 we are told God said He is the light and the darkness.
Isaiah 45 I am the Lord, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form light and create darkness;
I make well-being and create calamity;
I am the Lord, who does all these things.
Darkness or night is used to represent evil. Darkness is not said to be good. Separating darkness from light is said to be good.

In the new heavens and earth His presence as the glory of the Lord again as in the first three days according to the new order will be the light.
 

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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Darkness or night is used to represent evil. Darkness is not said to be good. Separating darkness from light is said to be good
There could be no a complete 1 day if there's no night.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Darkness or night is used to represent evil. Darkness is not said to be good. Separating darkness from light is said to be good.

In the new heavens and earth His presence as the glory of the Lord again as in the first three days according to the new order will be the light.
Here's another example where your insistence upon allegorizing everything in Scripture leads to wacky conclusions. God called the darkness "good". Instead of forcing your interpretation on the text, let the text shape your interpretation.
 
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Scripture support please.

Are you a Calvinist? Do you ascribe to the TULIP formula?
I make it my goal to ascribe to the scriptures the reforming authority.

Big difference between unconditional and unfailing love.

Hearing God so that a person can understand and therfore seek after Him is the first condition. As in all things he must do the first work .(cause and effect) Just and justifier.

As the father draws we can come. Of ones own volition no man could. Who or what would they turn to?

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.Romans 3:11
 
Mar 28, 2016
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There could be no a complete 1 day if there's no night.
It would seem He forms light as His presence .God is light. And he creates darkness to represent evil . The4th day he used the Sun and the moon .His glory had departed.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Here's another example where your insistence upon allegorizing everything in Scripture leads to wacky conclusions. God called the darkness "good". Instead of forcing your interpretation on the text, let the text shape your interpretation.
He called separating darkness from the good light good. But he never said darkness or night is good. Not darkness is good. That's the wacky conclusion.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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He called separating darkness from the good light good. But he never said darkness or night is good. Not darkness is good. That's the wacky conclusion.
Wrong!

Genesis 1:31 God saw all that He had made and behold, it was very good.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness....
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Here's another example where your insistence upon allegorizing everything in Scripture leads to wacky conclusions. God called the darkness "good". Instead of forcing your interpretation on the text, let the text shape your interpretation.
You must be studying from the wrong version of the bible. The KJV says nothing about God calling the darkness good.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Wrong!

Genesis 1:31 God saw all that He had made and behold, it was very good.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness....
If you finish verse 7, it says he created evil. Does God say that evil is good?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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You must be studying from the wrong version of the bible. The KJV says nothing about God calling the darkness good.
Just read those verses in your favourite translation, and keep the silly comments to yourself.

If you finish verse 7, it says he created evil. Does God say that evil is good?
I did read the rest of verse 7, and know what it says. God doesn't say that darkness is light, so your question is moot.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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If you finish verse 7, it says he created evil. Does God say that evil is good?
Evil is destruction, the opposite of doing good. But, at the same time, evil is not necessarily sin.

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
 
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I suppose I lack stamina because these endless debates are fatiguing and meaningless 😕