Not By Works

So much for 1 John 2:19 then, I guess.

19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. - 1 John 2:19

Apparently leaving Christ does not mean you never really believed in the first place.
But it seemed so right before.

That's not what I said is going to be hard for you to grasp.

Just a thought as pertains to that statement. Perhaps it is so, and I haven't compared all PS's posts so as to arrive at that conclusion myself, however, if it is true, perhaps the reason is that two different people are using one account?
One doesn't know where the other left off or what they said in defense of their position on the Gospel. And that could be why the assumed contradictions.

I arrive at that suggestion having been a member of a forum years ago and my sister was their moderator. One of many. They found that a member was doing precisely that. And this is why their posts were not consistent with the line of thought that particular member was setting forth in posts.

From Vines
Confess, Confession [Verb] homologeo lit., "to speak the same thing" (homos, "same," lego, "to speak"), "to assent, accord, agree with," denotes,

But are you not talking about nations here?

I personally do not believe that God transferred his grace to the gentiles.
From the beginning of time God had a plan of redemption that included the gentiles and not a transference to the gentiles.

The promise given to Abraham.

Even before the death and resurrection of Jesus in the old testament those who were not Israelites were to be accepted, loved and cared for and treated accordingly to grace of God. It was offered and not transferred.

Deuteronomy 10:19
19 Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Leviticus 19:34
34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Ezekiel 47:22-23
22 It shall be that you will divide it by lot as an inheritance for yourselves, and for the strangers who dwell among you and who bear children among you. They shall be to you as native-born among the children of Israel; they shall have an inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. 23 And it shall be that in whatever tribe the stranger dwells, there you shall give him his inheritance,” says the Lord God.

Zechariah 7:9-10
9 “Thus says the Lord of hosts:
Execute true justice,
Show mercy and compassion
Everyone to his brother.
10 Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless,
The alien or the poor.
Let none of you plan evil in his heart
Against his brother.’

Given your post above if the gentiles backslid then God would transfer it.
But to whom?
The Bhuddists?
After all the religions of the times from the OT to the NT worshipped false Gods, aka gentiles, even Israel worshipped false gods.

The issue for me is "Transfer"

So backsliders cannot return?

You say they cannot.

Can you define for me a backslider?

That's why I linked it. https://bible.org/seriespage/14-who-are-those-who-fall-away-hebrews-61-12
The Book of John chapter 10. The True Christian's Salvation is eternally secure.

When we cannot work so as to earn Salvation, as we're told by the Saint Apostle Paul in the Book of Romans chapter 3:20 For by works of the law no human being[c] will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin, we cannot work to lose Salvation. The Book of 1st John chapter 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You might care to study the subject so as to understand better that when the God of all creation tells us those who are in Christ are eternally secure, that His word is bond. While doubt would pertain to those who are further described in the Book of Hebrews chapter 6. Those who are not truly in faith, or are in the immature and stunted state of belief. Thinking God is not a God of His word, or that Christ's death on the cross did not accomplish what God said was accomplished. Therein thinking there is something that weak believer can do so as to be cast out of Salvation.
It is not uncommon for those who have a surface understanding of scripture, reading just enough to think they know enough, to hold faith in their inability to remain saved because they are certain there is something they can do to lose it.
Why they would argue for that I do not know.
When God said Salvation is eternal and irrevocable, that's God's word. He does not lie, nor take back His Heavenly gift.

Study, to show thyself approved that you might rightly divide the truth of God's word. (the Book of 1st Timothy chapter 2)

Heb 6:4-6 KJV For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You have there someone who really knows the subject. The best people I know can usually sum it up in a few words. For example, I would say, "The true Christian is eternally saved because they never leave the Saviour."

I do not read long posts, just so you know.

Please don't misrepresent what I wrote.

No, no.
God leaves the person. No one kicks Him out.

...they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. - Romans 11:20-22


24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. - 1 John 2:24

It would be irresponsible to let that false assertion stand without rebuke. Because there could be someone reading this that happened upon either the thread or that post, and are wondering if it is actually true. Perhaps they left the faith they were raised in, now they're hurting, desperate, and feel the need to return to what they once knew.

To read the above assertion, were it let to stand as is, what hope would that person then have? If they left it at that? "There's no coming back. Jesus died once and once only for the sinner."
While I believe PS should be let to live the faith they have and insist as correct post after post, contrary to correction, I do not believe their faith should be let to stand without rebuke because those who seek solace in their hope of return may actually believe what PS says.

PS is wrong!

Everything that was accomplished for the repentant sinner who came to Christ, was forgiven, and renewed in Jesus, stands for eternity.
Lets get that clear first and foremost. This way whomever may be seeking solace are assured in one sentence that they are not without hope and are instead lost forever. You're not.
For you, anyone who lost faith, that backslider as they're sometimes called, was regenerated in Christ when they came into forgiveness and rebirth in the spirit. Behold the old has gone and the new has arrived. A new creation, who has been washed clean of their sins that God remembers no more, and regenerated in the faith and spirit of Christ Jesus as a new creation. Because that old creation prone to sin, dead in their sins, is now dead. And what arose in the Baptism by water and/or by the Holy Spirit, is a new creation, a new creature alive in Christ. And washed clean of your former sins.

If you are here looking to see if you are able to return to the faith you abandoned for whatever reason before, know that all you need do is repent. Not so that God knows what you've done since you fell away, as He is eternally aware of all things. Rather, it is for the sake of your own peace of mind, that you acknowledge what you've done, are sorely sorry, and repent of those things that held you down, held you back, from the peace you once knew in the faith you left behind.

You are able to leave the faith, however the faith is deeper and more encompassing than just holding the thought that Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. The faith of God in Christ, is a spirit. And that sacred Holy Spirit of God, that is God, entered into you, sealed you with the covenant of regeneration and renewal, and rebirth in this life, for all time.

God knows the heart. And God even saw that you would stumble on your journey with Him due to the circumstances life thew at you.

I think one of the most wonderful assurances on the market today is the very simple message set in the poem, Footprints In The Sand.(Link)

You can never lose your Salvation. Never. Jesus died and took the sins of the world upon Himself once. And that sacrifice carries the promise the sacrifice was made for, the covenant seal He was born to deliver and die to guarantee, for all eternity.

You the backslider may have fallen from the faith however, Jesus did not let you go. You've found your way back, now repent, and welcome home. God has always loved you.

Do not ever let yourself be persuaded by false doctrinaires that you can lose your Salvation, or that you can never return to Christ once you've left the faith. God is all things, there is nowhere you can go that you can be without Him present in your life.

Read here to your hearts content. why a christian can never lose salvation The Bible is truth. Those who contend against it are not.

Welcome home.

...the True Believer is forever sealed and indwelt with Gods Holy Spirit.

None of that is true of course.
You are free to believe you , you alone, as you speak for yourself there, are able to lose your Salvation.
However, those who are in Christ will never lose their Salvation. For that to happen, if that were possible, Jesus would need be crucified all over again. Why? Because contrary to what actual scripture says about His death insuring eternal life, for that one who believes they can lose their Salvation the moment they stop believing, it would mean Jesus dying on the cross was of no avail to save those dead in their sins, if those who were redeemed and then stopped believing are able to undo in that one choice, all that was done for and to them by God and due to Christ's death.

And this would mean then that Jesus death did not do as was prophesied and for all eternity. Which would mean, He did not secure eternal life, and Salvation, He conditionally allotted Salvation contingent on faith. Which isn't in scripture.

And this would also mean that if the one who loses faith is now damned, that not only did their mortal choice to stop believing usurp God's authority over them, as it was His Spirit that made that faithful one a new creation. It would also mean that should that backslider decide to return to Christ, it is the same as saying , Jesus would have to be crucified all over again so as to take away the newly accrued sins of that backslider who has decided now to return to the flock. And of course, all their former sins would return to them, after they were made unregenerated, and were returned to the state of death, and being dead in their sins, again.
And that returned backslider would be conditionally saved contingent on keeping faith in Christ....this time.

If that is what you believe about yourself, so be it. However, as I said before, your idea of salvation need be rebuked so that those who may be seeking the truth of God in Christ are not led to believe it . Because it is not actually true according to the Bible and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

That's exactly right. Jesus knew those who left Him were not His own. Those today would be called nominal Christians. Name only Christians. They are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit and they are not begotten of God.
Notice how Jesus observed, none of them belonged to us. Those who are truly saved are begotten of God. We belong to God.

The best people I know can usually sum it up in a few words. For example, I would say, "The true Christian is eternally saved because they never leave the Saviour."

The bible --> JESUS finishes and completes faith in those who he begins it

These deceivers like PS ---> JESUS is a liar and we MUST keep faithful or lose salvation

That's exactly right. Jesus knew those who left Him were not His own. Those today would be called nominal Christians. Name only Christians. They are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit and they are not begotten of God.
Notice how Jesus observed, none of them belonged to us. Those who are truly saved are begotten of God. We belong to God.

Even if that person loses faith, God's creation within that person, they being regenerated, do not lose the Holy Spirit, though we can grieve the Holy Spirit.
The Bible tells us, the person who does not have the Holy Spirit is not saved. Those who have the Holy Spirit are. Someone can backslide, lose faith for a time, but they are still saved. And being they are still saved, they are still indwelt with Gods Holy Spirit and are begotten of God.

Wash your mouth out. I have never ever said Jesus is a liar. Never will either.