Why does God oppose Judaizing?

"Blik, post: 4155600, member: 249025"]If God was a separate God for Jews and Christians, you could have the right ideas but God told us that He was not. God is eternal, what we call law is simply how God created our world to be. He gives us His plan for us to have salvation, joy, and abundance and God offers that plan to humans, not to Jews as having a separate plan.

If the judaizers are Jews, then gentiles need not be concerned about accusations of their being judaizers, and Christians love to accuse other Christians of this. Scripture tells us we are the temple of God, you say we have no relation to an eternal idea of temple, and symbolism that God uses seems to be a foreign idea to you. The Levitical priesthood was a pattern of the priesthood that is of Christ it is related to Christ as our high priest, but that truth seems to be beyond your understanding.

God is eternal, and all God's ways are eternal not new and old. The world that God created that we live in today is the very same world that Adam and Eve lived in. His covenants, or ways God related to us changed, but none of His principles changed.

A covenant is simply telling us how God is relating to us. One covenant is that God relates to us by giving a rainbow to tell us we won't have a flood again. God related to man by requiring them to do some daily routines to remind them of how to live with the Lord guiding their life. The new covenant was God relating to man through the spirit.

God is eternal, God lives in a dimension that has eternal principles.
What is this business about your I am right and you are wrong?




how do you do that?

how do you take things that are totally unrelated and preach such nonsense?

your ideas are among the most skewed I have ever had the importunity to read

it isn't funny and I am not making fun

your views are touching heretical and I am not sure they have not actually arrived at that destination

I think you are making things up

no one is posting about anti-Semitism

I mean you could not deliberately try to confuse things any more than trying to create that diversion

lately, I have seen you do this sort of thing over and over and so far have held my peace about it

but either you are showing your true colors or you hit your head

there is no bigotry in opposing the lies of Catholicism either

further, no one has stated the law(s) of God are done away either

why do you do this? you will state others twist what is posted but it seem you are just as capable of doing the same in order to protect your own very mistaken ideas such as sinless Mary etc

Jesus fulfilled the law ON OUR BEHALF because we are helpless before God in our sin until we believe in the ETERNAL sacrifice of Jesus

I am sure you have read Galatians but it seems you must have misunderstood it

perhaps those who identify the actual gospel in the Bible, might ask 'who has bewitched you' as did Paul to those who were listening to the Judaizers who were telling them they had to be circumcised in their flesh in order to be actually saved

You directly contradict Scripture here. Deuteronomy plainly states, "the blood is the life"; you plainly say, "Blood is not the life."

Perhaps you should stop inventing symbolic meanings for everything and start paying attention to the plain text.

Anti-semitism definition, discrimination against or prejudice or hostility toward Jews.

I think you're entitled to your opinion of course. However, I think you might be confused and are siding with those who are the divisive ones in this community when you address me in this manner. Perhaps you might consider it is they that are bewitched. Or, rather than dabble in the occultic accusations, something more real and not in this community for the good. That causes division.

Division is caused when a small group of people focus on spreading a teaching that is anti-Jewish. Thinking to do away with all things that pertain to the Old Testament. Some going so far as to say it is obsolete.

Furthermore, it is a lie , as I'll put it outright as just that when no one who has read my posts can ever accuse me of referring to a sinless Mary. So perhaps in your zeal to address me in your manner, you're confused there.
I in fact have said that Mary was forgiven her sins by God and that is why she was highly favored (graced) by God so as to bear the Messiah into the world.
I wont go into the rest of it because what I've said is in print in its own thread.
Perhaps you also might consider that people who are against anything pertaining to Judaism have misread the entire Bible.

And lastly, perhaps the OP title could be re-arranged so as to benefit the discussion further. "Where did God oppose "Judaizing" in scripture." We can't use Paul because we know his views on the law, as was briefly touched upon in one of my posts.
We absolutely can't use Jesus or God, because God said Salvation is of the Jews. And then sent Himself to enter the world by being born into a Jewish family.

Therefore, it seems a simple task. Prove God condemned all things Jewish. Remembering what He said about the Law and as long as Heaven and Earth are here.
As well as Jesus upholding the law in His teachings. And God writing His law in our hearts so that we are never apart from it.

I think a lot of those who are dead set in arguing the law of God is done away, etc... are actually members of sects under the umbrella of Replacement Theology. That which cannot be defended Biblically.

What's tragic is that in every Christian forum that is busy with posts the BDF is always in conflict. Christ came to unite the world, and yet men have divided the world intended by Jesus' words.

Perhaps another way of posing such a question is, is their Biblical proof in God's word that He opposed Jewish tradition after Messiah. (Himself , as a man, and a practicing Jew.)

Answering your OP question...

In my opinion, keeping it super short and simple, because it lacks love.

We agree on most things, except where in the world you got the idea for the lie about my belief in Christ?

At least you believe in some of scripture and repeat what I have been saying, even. To expand on it: even way back in Lev. We are told of the blood, and we know that blood is Christ’ as it was in eternity.

Lev. 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Although it wasn’t until Christ was crucified that salvation was complete, we know of their salvation even from the chapter in Matthew; Matthew 27: 52 and the tombs broke open. (when the curtain split at the crucifixion of Christ) The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Hebrews repeats the OT: Hebrew 9: 22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

You repeat my posting about the new covenant explaining to us that the Lord is now communicating with us through the spirit to replace the former communication done through the symbolic acts the Lord formerly required.

You keep repeating, in a very snide mean way, that you think the feasts are simply a physical act, no prayer, no praise, no thanking the Lord to it. I simply think you are wrong about that. Besides lying about a Christian is quite an undertaking.

Does Judaism lack love?
Are God's laws lacking love?

No, not at all, dear Sis. I think He wants us to be invested in what He wants for our lives. I just think judaizing itself, if I understand that word properly, can lack love. I think our relationship with Him is a very personal thing and that when we get too thou shalt and thou shalt not with others, we can sometimes negate to thou shalt love with mercy and prayer. I am not saying we should be hyper grace and tolerant. I guess that I just believe we should spend more time praying for one another and caring for one another. Hey, we all could do better in this arena, right?

I think we should first and foremost spend our energy and time in getting close to Him, that investing in Him will naturally cause us to want to please Him and to care for others.

I think balance is a great place to be, seeking to honor Him first and foremost in all that we say, think, and do.

Do I always...absolutely not. Should I strive to do better with His guidance and grace, yes. Lord, help us.

Thank you for your response sister.

103. How sweet to my tongue is your promise,truly sweeter than honey in my mouth! The Book of Psalms chapter 119

I post this in hopes it helps you in your studies of our Lords word and work. Blessings.

How Does the Bible Define “Judaizer”?

Posted on 05/18/2014 by Natan Lawrence


Who Is the Real Judaizer?
Mainstream Christians often label those believers in the gospel and who adhere to the Torah Judaizers. Is this a correct label and is the biblical historical origin of this term?

The term Judaizing or Judaizer as the mainstream Christian understands it today isn’t found in the New Testament per se. However, church historians and Bible teachers have applied this term retrospectively to those in the primitive Christian church as well as to modern saints who advocated adherence to the Torah. This is ironic since Paul advocated Torah obedience to the believers in Rome (who were both Jewish and Gentile). So while Paul teaches Torah observance on the one hand, many believe that Paul was teaching liberty from the Torah (in book of Galatians, for example) on the other hand. This has led to much confusion about what Paul really believed. Was he conflicted in his beliefs being both for and against the Torah? Or maybe he gradually changed his opinion from pro-Torah to anti-Torah. This latter proposition seems unlikely since Bible scholars tell us that Romans and Galatians were written nearly at the same time. So the term Judaizer as used by modern Bible scholars seems to be a canard — a fabricated concept, or a concept built on a false premise.

The term Judiazer is found only in two verses in the entire Bible. The first place is in Esther 8:17 where the Greek Old Testament (LXX) uses the Hebrew verb yachad meaning “to become a Jew,” or “to profess oneself to be Jewish.” It was used in reference to those Persians who suddenly “converted” to Judaism to escape Jewish persecution. The final reference is found in Galatians 2:14 were Paul was accusing Peter, not of being Torah-obedient, but rather of adhering to non-biblical Jewish traditions, which forbad Jews and Gentiles from eating together. In reality, adherence to these extrabiblical Jewish traditions was Judaizing — a fact that seems to be missed by the majority of Christian scholars from the second century to this day! This isn’t a new thing, for Yeshua accused the learned Jewish religious leaders of his day of the same thing: “making the word of Elohim of no effect through your traditions which you have handed down” (Mark 7:15). Earlier he said, “You reject the commandment of Elohim, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:9).

In reality, what Paul was fighting against was not the Torah, which he advocates, defends and claims to follow himself in a number of places in his writings, but he rejects the idea that one can be saved by their works including circumcision. After all, this issue was the focus of the debate of the first Jerusalem council in Acts 15. In combatting the false notion that circumcision, for example, must be a prerequisite to salvation, Paul opposes this idea in grand and logical step-by-step fashion in the book of Romans, and again in the book of Galatians in a knock-out-the-opponent-quickly manner. So if we’re to apply the term Judaizer to anyone, it must be applied to those advocating a works-based salvation formula, not to those who teach that salvation is by grace alone through faith in Yeshua with the spiritual fruits of conversion being love toward Elohim and one’s fellow man as defined by the Torah — something this author strongly advocates. Sadly, this fundamental truth of who a Judaizer really seems to have been missed by the majority of early church fathers and modern mainstream church theologians who have continued to repeat the anti-Semitic viewpoints handed down to them from the second century church fathers, and who fear rejection from their peers and supporters if they go against millennia of church tradition.

it's not my opinion

you are making false statements. that is not an opinion and is plain for all to see

sorry you do not seem to think the sacrifice of Jesus is all sufficient and must needs mix in Catholic teachings which contain quite a bit of superstition

you now sound exactly like a typical Judaizer by the way you minimize the fact Christ fulfilled all of the law and your false renderings of Paul's teachings

you cannot prove we should still include the law in or with salvation as of equal importance and so you keep attempting to make it seem the onus is on those of us who agree with scripture

the law served its purpose but you folks keep wanting to exhume the body and examine it for evidence to support what scripture refutes

well that sounds very pious and all but it will not stand in the light of the word of God

the BDF refutes the unbiblical teachings of Judaizers, Catholic dogma and various and sundry other machinations of things that would prefer to remain hidden

and didn't Jesus actually say He came into the world to bring a sword?

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

ecumenicism is NOT of God. that is Catholic and devilish in its intent. you cannot mix truth and error together and call it peace

that is a lie from the father of all lies and all liars

as I am quite familiar with your posts, my question would be where on earth you have the mistaken idea we are almost in agreement

to state ANYTHING but the sacrifice of Christ is needed for salvation is to make Paul and the rest of the Apostles a liar

again and again this truth is attacked

no one ever, let me repeat, no one EVER can do anything to make themselves more than what Christ has done

and He has done away with the law and all that goes with it. THAT, is Christianity

those who are not believers ARE still under the law and the law curses all sinful humanity to eternal damnation...but of course there are those who don't believe that either.

you have tried to state you do certain things because you want to, but the truth is finally exposed

you keep asking where it states the law has been done away with which indicated you DEPEND on the law or you would disavow following it and follow Christ instead

personally, you can follow Ho chi minh...what I find grievous, is that you deny what you actually do and try to ADD to salvation, which brings upon the person who does so an actual curse

perhaps that explains the confusion of Judaizers...ever learning but never coming to the truth.

it is always out of reach for those who deny Jesus his victory over the darkness and death

Now you're getting terribly personal and have lost perspective. You do not speak for all. And for some reason you've become agressive toward myself and someone else here. We do not deserve the brunt of whatever is happening in your personal life.
I will leave you to believe what you wish.
And please, ignore the article I posted to my sister CharliRenee .(As I see you have done) It would be too much to ask that it quell your temper and help you understand that those who are against all things Judaism are not in keeping with the scriptures.

By telling us Christ fulfilled the law, what do you mean? Is it that because we can be forgiven for breaking any law, that now we are freed from the law, free to lie, cheat and steal without it affecting our life in any negative way?

You and the Lord are against any obedience to Him that is only physical, not of the heart. The problem is that you most of you are including obedience of the heart, alone. If a man tells you to do something in praise of God, like a sunrise service on Easter morning, you hop right to it, but if God tells you to celebrate that God saves you with His blood you get out the ham God has used as a symbol of the dirty things of the world, wave it in God's face with a feast on it, and tell Him it is all wrong to do as He tells you to, it is only a physical thing He is against.

the key issue is whom God told what to.

as Paul stated multiple times in the N.T., gentiles did not have the Law, only Israel celebrated the feasts , only Israel was given the dietary laws. ( it shall be a statute forever for the children of Israel)

so, again, just as Leviticus 26 says, if you cannot trace your ancestry back to those who crossed the red sea ( came out of egypt), then those things were not commanded to you..

Were the sodomites Hebrew people? I don't know just wondering

We hear this from the modern church over and over that God is speaking to Israel exclusively.

Scripture tells us that God is a God of all people. If you will do a search for the word strangers in the KJV you find 64 references to strangers, most of them instructing the Hebrews that God wants the strangers included. Because in OT times no gentile race accepted God, all gentiles were called strangers.

God created the Hebrew race because most men of all races did not know Him, they were to show all people. Scripture tells us that God sees us as humans, not as people divided into races. The Hebrew race is only special to God as God blesses them for the use God made of them for us.

I would ask that you rephrase. I don't quite know what you're saying and particularly with respect to the second part. The Lord is against any obedience to Him....? This is the problem with broad brush strokes when thinking to speak for "everyone", or, "most of you". You have no idea what the many feel so it is best to keep your remarks directed to the person to whom you are addressing.
In that regard, you have me wrong. We do not celebrate Easter.

Now, I'm really confused. I actually think your entire post is meant for someone else. None of what you've said makes sense to me. I clarified about the Easter matter because that is just my view.
Thanks.

Jesus came to save both Jews and Gentiles.
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments." (The Book of John chapter 14) Was He then speaking only to Jews there?