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azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#141
Apr 3, 2019
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#141
posthuman said:
so if the fig tree is a type of Israel, 'all the trees' is a type here of all the other nations of earth, all the gentiles.
it is not for no reason that He specifies 'fig tree'
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Consider this Skele, if the fig tree is a type of Israel how come in the parable Jesus compares Israel to a vineyard:

(Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country)

(Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.)

So which is it? A vineyard or a figyard?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#143
Jun 30, 2015
24,733
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#143
azamzimtoti said:
Consider this Skele, if the fig tree is a type of Israel how come in the parable Jesus compares Israel to a vineyard:

(Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country)

(Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.)

So which is it? A vineyard or a figyard?
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Scripture says "vineyard" but I'm sure someboday has figyard it differently. ;)
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#144
Feb 21, 2014
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#144
It's called derailment. Happens quite often, especially in this forum.. lol
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#147
Jul 18, 2017
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#147
azamzimtoti said:
...if the fig tree is a type of Israel how come in the parable Jesus compares Israel to a vineyard...
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Because Jesus is free to use any metaphor He chooses. There is a good reason why Israel can be compared to both a vineyard and an unfruitful fig tree (which ultimately flourishes). In the parable of the vineyard, the focus is not on the vines but on the son who is heir to the vineyard.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#151
Apr 3, 2019
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#151
Nehemiah6 said:
Because Jesus is free to use any metaphor He chooses. There is a good reason why Israel can be compared to both a vineyard and an unfruitful fig tree (which ultimately flourishes). In the parable of the vineyard, the focus is not on the vines but on the son who is heir to the vineyard.
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No, the vineyard is Israel. Sure, he can use any metaphor he likes, but that does not let people use his parables willy nilly as some do.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#152
Jul 31, 2013
36,682
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#152
John146 said:
Jesus using the wine as a type of blood.
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symbolizing life, joy, peace and fullness. Grapes and blood are become pictures for us of all these things.

When the blood of Abel cries from the ground it isn't 'the corruption of Abel' crying out, is it?
isn't it the corruption of Cain - who gave a bloodless offering ((of figs?)), and did murder?

John146 said:
Moses - water to blood
Jesus - water to a type of blood, wine
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the law came through Moses - blood to water is judgement
grace and truth through Jesus Christ - water to blood is mercy and joy
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#153
Jul 31, 2013
36,682
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#153
John146 said:
Just...why?

I compare scripture to scripture. A buddy and I did this study quite some time ago. Tons of Scripture involved.
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i'd like to say @John146 that i really appreciate something: you and i have talked with each other in many thread on many topics for several years now, and even though we have a number of disagreements, i've never found you holding grudges or becoming bitter, and i can't remember any of these 'arguments' turning personal or either of us accusing each other of heresy, or anything like that. we're not enemies; we're brothers, and i love you. i love how we've been able to disagree and not be at each other's throats, not attacking, not irrational.

that's Christ in you, my friend. i see Him there :)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#154
Jul 31, 2013
36,682
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#154
azamzimtoti said:
Consider this Skele, if the fig tree is a type of Israel how come in the parable Jesus compares Israel to a vineyard:

(Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country)

(Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.)

So which is it? A vineyard or a figyard?
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didn't you notice He said "hear another parable" ? :p

i think in the parable in vv. 28-32, Israel is likened to one of the two sons, not to the vineyard. the vineyard in this passage is the kingdom -- the place both sons were asked to go work.

likewise in the parable in vv. 33-44, Israel is the tenants, not the vineyard -- the vineyard is the kingdom of God / kingdom of heaven, as He says in v. 43, it's being taken away from the pharisees ((Israel / tenants)) and given to another ((those who believe, including Gentiles)). this is similar to ch. 20 vv. 1-16; Israel is likened in that parable to the workers who had been hired first, early in the day - who grumbled at the Gentiles, who were hired late, and did very little work. there the vineyard isn't Israel, it's the kingdom.

but it isn't any kind of logical problem for several different things to be representative of Israel; why should it be? the olive tree, the fig tree, the vine of Jonah (('a vine out of Egypt' -- Psalm 80)). aren't there like a million things that typify Christ in the scripture? is He the door or the ladder? is He the light or the two-edged sword? the key or the fountain? the brazen serpent or the pillar of fire? the rock or the wind? He's all these things -- every type/metaphor/symbol speaks of different aspects, like the olive tree speaks of the religion, the vine speaks of the spirit, and the fig tree speaks of the nation of Israel.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#155
Jul 31, 2013
36,682
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#155
azamzimtoti said:
No, the vineyard is Israel. Sure, he can use any metaphor he likes, but that does not let people use his parables willy nilly as some do.
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i don't think it's 'willy nilly' that if you're looking for how Israel relates to this saying:

Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near."
(Luke 21:29-30)
​
that the fig tree is symbolic of her. He'd just been speaking about Jerusalem in v. 20 -- and throughout scripture, you have the nation of Israel & 'all other nations' -- so why would i think anything other than Israel vs all other nations when i hear Him say the fig tree & all other trees? what else could it be?
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#156
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
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#156
posthuman said:
i don't think it's 'willy nilly' that if you're looking for how Israel relates to this saying:

Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near." ​
(Luke 21:29-30)​
​
that the fig tree is symbolic of her. He'd just been speaking about Jerusalem in v. 20 -- and throughout scripture, you have the nation of Israel & 'all other nations' -- so why would i think anything other than Israel vs all other nations when i hear Him say the fig tree & all other trees? what else could it be?
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Your whole premise is totally illogical Skele - as I said the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem was as certain as trees budding before summer. That is why he used the trees as an example/parable There is no connection between the trees/fig tree and the nation itself other than in prediction of the destruction.

That the disciples never questioned him "declare unto us the parable" shows they understood it in the plain sense.

He could have used the harvest example. "When you see the harvest white".

The only way I've seen this used as a symbol for Israel is by futurist (mainly dispensational theories) to indicate the budding of Israel in connection to the Jews in 1948 and or 1967.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#157
Nov 23, 2013
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#157
azamzimtoti said:
Your whole premise is totally illogical Skele - as I said the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem was as certain as trees budding before summer. That is why he used the trees as an example/parable There is no connection between the trees/fig tree and the nation itself other than in prediction of the destruction.

That the disciples never questioned him "declare unto us the parable" shows they understood it in the plain sense.

He could have used the harvest example. "When you see the harvest white".

The only way I've seen this used as a symbol for Israel is by futurist (mainly dispensational theories) to indicate the budding of Israel in connection to the Jews in 1948 and or 1967.
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That statement about the fig tree was directly pointing to this.

Amo 8:2 (KJV) And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#158
Apr 3, 2019
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#158
KJV1611 said:
That statement about the fig tree was directly pointing to this.

Amo 8:2 (KJV) And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.
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I doubt that the summer fruit is related to the fig tree K16, it most probably relates to the scattering of the ten tribes by the Assyrians
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#159
Jan 13, 2016
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#159
posthuman said:
i'd like to say @John146 that i really appreciate something: you and i have talked with each other in many thread on many topics for several years now, and even though we have a number of disagreements, i've never found you holding grudges or becoming bitter, and i can't remember any of these 'arguments' turning personal or either of us accusing each other of heresy, or anything like that. we're not enemies; we're brothers, and i love you. i love how we've been able to disagree and not be at each other's throats, not attacking, not irrational.

that's Christ in you, my friend. i see Him there :)
Click to expand...
I appreciate that brother. Love you right back. We’ll be spending eternity together praising the Savior.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#160
Nov 23, 2013
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#160
Joh 1:48 (KJV) Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.

Nathanael was in that basket of summer fruit.... get it? Jesus saw Nathanael UNDER the fig tree, he was untimely FRUIT of the fig tree when shaken by a mighty WIND.
 
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