Not By Works

Show me in the verse below where it says believing is you trying to earn your salvation by working for it:

"5 to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness" - Romans 4:5



You receive justification the moment you believe.
And that justification remains as you remain in that believing.

Show me in the verse below where it says believing is you trying to earn your salvation by working for it:

"5 to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness" - Romans 4:5

You receive justification the moment you believe.
And that justification remains as you remain in that believing.

you say this, then you go on to say that if one is not doing enough good works, then one could " fall into unbelief "

...thereby bringing in a works based mindset.

God's says unless we mortify the deeds of the body through the Spirit we will die.

What I said was what Hebrews 3:12-13 says:

"12See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness."

Is there something you do not agree with in the passage?


I never made that connection.
I wouldn't because I think being hardened in unbelief by the deceitfulness of sin would be seen in a return to the deeds of the flesh (adultery, drunkenness, etc.), not seen in trying to earn your salvation by works.

What I said was what Hebrews 3:12-13 says:

"12See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness."

Is there something you do not agree with in the passage?


I never made that connection.
I wouldn't because I think being hardened in unbelief by the deceitfulness of sin would be seen in a return to the deeds of the flesh (adultery, drunkenness, etc.), not seen in trying to earn your salvation by works.

All sin paid for on the cross for all time.

lordship salvation junk

all that looked good on the outside, which is how you judge.

...as long as you are still doing the believing you started out in.
All the promises are for those with present tense, uninterrupted believing, not for those who never believed or who used to believe.

Unbelievers do not inherit the kingdom of God.

The person who doesn't do what the Lord commands is not a child of God:

We know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are by how they act.

Yes, there are lots of babies in the church who think the correctness of doctrine, particularly osas doctrine, is what it means to believe and be saved and be spiritual and have God's approval. But their lives show they "do not yet know as they ought to know " (1 Corinthians 8:2), and are "conceited and understand nothing" about godliness (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

1 I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
3for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? - 1 Corinthians 3:1,3

Jesus wasn't just talking about salvation when he said this:

13“...the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matthew 7:13-14

It seems there are lots of Christians who will never find "the life that is truly life" (1 Timothy 6:19), the life of "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17). Instead, they will live out their lives in the dogmatic wranglings of baby milk doctrines thinking that is what constitutes the life of knowing Jesus. They have yet to move on to maturity and to that which really matters (Galatians 5:6, 6:15).

AMEN! I KNOW, as LONG as you TRUST HIM, HE WILL GIVE YOU THE VICTORY over the addiction. My wife was addicted to Pain Pills, when I first met her. She had a hard time kicking the addiction, because she had not FULLY Trusted the LORD YET! One day when Dad and I went fishing, she decided to go for Donuts, but before she left the house she popped several pain pills and muscle relaxers. The Donuts Shop was about a mile away. On the way home, she passed out while driving and Hit a telephone pole size of a Steel Sign Post, during our first year of Marriage. She hit the steering wheel so hard, it bruised her heart. Actually it stopped beating on the Emergency Room table, and they had to defib her, to get it started again.

After she got out of the hospital, I needed help from somebody to keep an eye on her, while I went to work in the Post Office. Her Mother volunteered to help us. Her Mother was in the habit of Praying for my wife, Bobbi, in the morning. About a week and a half later, here Mother, the Prayer Warrior, was on her kneels praying for Bobbi, out loud; when Bobbi came out of her Bed Room, and saw her PRAYING EARNESTLY FOR HER. Something Precious HAPPEN TO HER, THE SIGHT OF HER MOTHER PRAYING FOR HER, dropped her to her KNEES, as she REPENTED, now CRYING, and she cried out to the LORD, "FORGIVE ME! PLEASE TAKE THIS ADDICTION AWAY FROM ME!" And she meant that prayer with her WHOLE BEING.

She had built up her tolerance, to where she was actually taking what would be a LETHAL dose for normal person. SHE WENT FROM THAT ALL TIME HIGH OF PAIN PILLS, to ZERO that day, WITHOUT WITHDRAWALS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I AM A WITNESS! A few days later, she had an appointment with her doctor. He insisted that she checked in at the local Rehab Center. I tried to explain that SHE had been HEALED of the Addiction, in answer to Prayer. The Dr. said, "If you believe that, you are either a fool, or a liar." I figured out that the Dr. was not a CHRISTIAN real QUICK. So my wife went into the REHAB CENTER anyhow.

We were 36.5 years of marriage, when the LORD called her Home with a fatal heart attack.

View attachment 213763
That is the Two of US, about 30 years ago, in the Redwoods near Crescent City, CA.
Where GOD wanted us to move to, so I could Start a PRISON Ministry. Yes, I am 71 now.

KEEP TRUSTED HIM TOTALLY!

Well, let us see then. Dissensions are all over the BDF forum from what I've read others say of the board. Some even avoid a board where the bible is discussed in this Christian community due to the discord, hatred, dissensions and even factions that align together on the same track and weave dissension, sew discord, express hatred.

Works have everything to do with your salvation. If not, why does God judge you by your works and reward accordingly when you stand before him after death?
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, both great and small stand before God: and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged of those things, which were written in the books, according to their works.

And then there is this that in part explains why you'll be judged for your works. Philippians 2:12-13 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed-not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence-continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13. for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

Just a little reminder

God bless you my brother. Thank you very much for the story and words of encouragement. It really does give me hope. I cant love god and mammon. I hate it so bad. There's no doubt I'm the habitual prodigal son. I've cried out to God, but he knows me better than I do so maybe I am holding onto a reservation or something, or maybe it's for a testimony to further glorify him, because the glory of god is more important than my salvation. I would give up my salvation if it was for the glory of God. Again, God bless you and your faith. Keep it my brother, you are an encouragement.
In Christ,
Bob

I read someone say in a different discussion that faith isn't about feelings. That's not an exact recollection of their exact words in their posting. However, it is the sum of what was said and meant.
I would disagree. And I think that may be part of the issue when encountering brash people who are verbally abusive and yet proclaim Christ. And worse, defend that by putting themselves on equal footing with God so as to imply they're just imitating how he treats people in the bible.

I think the reason for that deplorable conduct is because the truth of God is not in them. The change that is suppose to occur to a person once they've entered into their redemptive journey in Christ isn't actually there. They're the same person they were before they claimed to have been saved. Now instead of their full legal name being what they go by, they've added Christian as a mere nickname.

Image and likeness of Christ just doesn't coincide with negative personality.

Yes, there are lots of babies in the church who think the correctness of doctrine, particularly osas doctrine, is what it means to believe and be saved and be spiritual and have God's approval. But their lives show they "do not yet know as they ought to know " (1 Corinthians 8:2), and are "conceited and understand nothing" about godliness (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

1 I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
3for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? - 1 Corinthians 3:1,3

Jesus wasn't just talking about salvation when he said this:

13“...the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matthew 7:13-14

It seems there are lots of Christians who will never find "the life that is truly life" (1 Timothy 6:19), the life of "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17). Instead, they will live out their lives in the dogmatic wranglings of baby milk doctrines thinking that is what constitutes the life of knowing Jesus. They have yet to move on to maturity and to that which really matters (Galatians 5:6, 6:15).

...because that's how Jesus and John told us to 'judge' whether someone is a believer or not.
It's like you don't even know what the Bible says about this.
Few Christians do it seems.