Is it a sin to drink alcohol

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lightbearer

lightbearer

Senior Member
#641
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
#641
Jackson123 said:
Seem to me this verse is for Israel in the OT in the context of not drunk and couse problem in the temple

But If we have problem with stomach, Paul advised timothy to drink little wine

This advised consistent with modern study that say moderat Red wine good for gut bacteria
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presidente said:
Jesus said a disciple is not above his master nor a servant above his Lord. It is enough for a disciple to be as his master and a servant as his Lord.

He also said the Son of Man came eating and drinking. He took the cup. He said to His disciples 'drink ye all of it.
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hornetguy said:
You are trying to apply Old Law rules for priests to we of the "royal priesthood".... who are not under Levitical law. You cannot have it both ways. Either we are still under Levitical law, and need to appoint priests to take care of the priestly duties, or we are a NEW type of priest, that is not bound by the old law.
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Alcohol impairment is today as it was then.
We as Kings are not to drink wine or strong drink at all lest our judgment be perverted. And we as Priests are not to drink wine or strong drink before we entered the inner court yard and the Tabernacle of the Congregation, the Temple so we can discern between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean. And we should be the example through Christ and put no stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in our brother's way.

Everyone is given a greater responsibility through Christ.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
(1Cor 3:16)
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#646
Feb 6, 2014
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#646
2000 years ago, there wasn't have refrigeration how long grape juice start fermented?

Quote

According to the US Food and Drug Administration, perishable foods that are supposed to be refrigerated, like juice, can only be left out at room temperature for two hours before it's considered unsafe to consume.

End quote

I google and look like it start fermentation in 2 hour in room temperature

So I believe wine in the wedding party in Cana where Jesus turn water into wine more likely alcoholic wine. Otherwise people must make grape juice every 2 hours

I google in Jesus time wedding ceremony take 5 to 7 days.

To my knowledge grape juice start fermented after 2 hours and finish after 14 days.

In 2 hours, the level of alcohol may not as higher as finish wine, but there is alcohol there.
 
WithinReason

WithinReason

Active member
#647
Feb 21, 2020
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#647
Jackson123 said:
2000 years ago, there wasn't have refrigeration ...
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You assume a lot (and not just in the refrigeration dept). Without getting into 'refrigeration' methods such as ice, snow, cellars, stone caverns, cold rivers, etc, have you considered that grapes could be preserved, and then pressed when needed? Same with 'must' (already defined earlier). I pray you have considered what was already presented here, just a few responses back - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-to-drink-alcohol.191061/page-32#post-4205279
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#648
Jul 31, 2013
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#648
WithinReason said:
You assume a lot (and not just in the refrigeration dept). Without getting into 'refrigeration' methods such as ice, snow, cellars, stone caverns, cold rivers, etc, have you considered that grapes could be preserved, and then pressed when needed? Same with 'must' (already defined earlier). I pray you have considered what was already presented here, just a few responses back - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-to-drink-alcohol.191061/page-32#post-4205279
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Rebutted on page 1.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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#651
Jan 18, 2016
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#651
WithinReason said:
Just. 'wow'. You just called scripture, written by Baruch on behalf of Jeremiah the Prophet, 'archaic gibberish' (yes, I know you refer to the KJB English (you know, that English which is spoken by most of the world, from UK, Europe, to China, to Australia, to the united States and Canada, etc).
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Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to. NOBODY speaks King James english anymore, of whom I am aware. Can you please enlighten me as to where this 17th century place exists?

And if you know that is what I meant, why do you try to accuse me of denigrating scripture, when you know I was denigrating the use of an archaic form of language?

Wow, indeed.
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#652
Oct 25, 2018
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#652
hornetguy said:
Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to. NOBODY speaks King James english anymore, of whom I am aware. Can you please enlighten me as to where this 17th century place exists?

And if you know that is what I meant, why do you try to accuse me of denigrating scripture, when you know I was denigrating the use of an archaic form of language?

Wow, indeed.
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To be fair, they still have Shakespearean plays that speak that language.

#Forsooth
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#653
Jan 18, 2016
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posthuman said:
emptying vessel-to-vessel, a.k.a. "decanting"
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Yes... Withoutreason is the one that highlighted that part. He's trying to take an obscure prophecy which compares Moab to the way the sediment forms in wine that is left undisturbed, or "un-stressed"

He simply reaches further and further, grasping for whatever straw he can find and twist.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#654
Jan 18, 2016
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#654
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
To be fair, they still have Shakespearean plays that speak that language.
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Yes, and they have Italian operas, as well. I understand a little Italian, but I still have to go "what did he say?" most of the time. Much the same way as modern English speaking people do with 17th century English.

Seriously, did you know what "settled in his lees" meant, without having to go look it up? :rolleyes:

We've had endless discussions about the un-necessary difficulty imposed on readers trying to understand scripture in the KJV. And it is JUST that.... un-necessary, when there are other, more biblically accurate translations available in contemporary English. :)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#655
Jul 31, 2013
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#655
hornetguy said:
Yes... Withoutreason is the one that highlighted that part. He's trying to take an obscure prophecy which compares Moab to the way the sediment forms in wine that is left undisturbed, or "un-stressed"

He simply reaches further and further, grasping for whatever straw he can find and twist.
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Seems like God is saying that Moab's problem is they haven't been decanted, not that they've fermented. I mean He isn't faulting them for being "wine" He is saying they should be better prepared wine.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#656
Jun 30, 2015
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#656
WithinReason said:
Just. 'wow'. You just called scripture, written by Baruch on behalf of Jeremiah the Prophet, 'archaic gibberish' (yes, I know you refer to the KJB English (you know, that English which is spoken by most of the world, from UK, Europe, to China, to Australia, to the united States and Canada, etc).
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The only places that "KJB English" is spoken are Shakespearean festivals and KJV-only circles. The rest of us speak 20th-century English.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#657
Jun 30, 2015
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#657
WithinReason said:
No. If I had meant that I would have said it, or cited an 'authority' for such, but since I clearly did not, I am not saying any such thing. I am saying that the Jews (etc) were smarter than you (and many others) give them credit for, and understood, by the wisdom of God (having been the keepers of the oracles of God), how to do such things. Some of that process is described in the literature and links I provided for you already. "Magick" was forbidden to them, even as it is to us who are Christian.

Most of the Jews were agricultural, and even as the Hebrews had come out of Egypt, knew their preservation methods (like mummification, etc) also. The Jews (Hebrews) were unique to most populaces as they had their presence in many foreign countries, and could also learn of their preservation methods as well. Likewise, when they were conquered or captured by various nations, and had to learn (as Daniel) certain of their wisdom and schooling. This too increased their knowledge base.

Consider also the reign of Solomon, and the wisdom bestowed during that time, and handed down on all matter of things.
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Fallacy: argument from silence.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#658
Jan 13, 2016
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#658
Dino246 said:
The only places that "KJB English" is spoken are Shakespearean festivals and KJV-only circles. The rest of us speak 20th-century English.
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Great Hymns of the faith...

And I’m ok with that. We’re talking about God’s word. It should sound different. It should stand out from the dribble we speak today. I don’t want it to sound like any other written work of today.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#659
Jan 18, 2016
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#659
God's word stands out on its own, because of WHAT it says, not HOW it is said.

Speaking scripture in archaic English only makes you appear to be aloof and unapproachable.
 
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