Is it a sin to drink alcohol

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hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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.... and Jesus looked like Peter Frampton, and had a British accent.... really.... it's in all the movies...
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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"... the Talmud indicates that drinking was forbidden to the accompaniment of musical instruments in festive occasions such as weddings (Sotah 48a; also Mishna Sotah 9, 11). ..." - https://bible-christian.org/myths-about-wine-and-alcohol-in-the-bible-part-1/
I don't know why you would think some statement about fruit being preserved fresh 100 years in Josephus would prove anything one way or another about drinking wine in Biblical times, But you should actually look up primary sources. Your source there is misleading. He leaves out the part about enjoying wine with song being forbidden after the Sanhedrin was disbanded.

Here is a quote from Sotah 48a according to
http://www.come-and-hear.com/sotah/sotah_48.html
" WHEN THE SANHEDRIN CEASED [TO FUNCTION], SONG CEASED FROM THE PLACES OF FEASTING; AS IT IS SAID, THEY SHALL NOT DRINK WINE WITH A SONG ETC "

Compare with Mishneh Sotah 9,11 according to https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Sot...ide=Torat_Emet_357&with=Version Open&lang2=en
"When the Sanhedrin [highest court, charged with deciding cases and appeals that had national significance. It was comprised of 71 scholars who had received the full traditional rabbinical ordination, and its decisions fixed Jewish practice for subsequent generations.] ceased, song ceased from the places of feasting, as it is said, “They drink their wine without song” (Isaiah 24:9). "

The Sanhedrin was still around throughout the end of Acts and beyond until later in the first century. They tried our Lord and show up in Acts.

I hear they stopped playing instruments in the synagogue to mourn the destruction of the temple and later justified it as a temptation to violate sabbath by changing a string if it broke.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Pr 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

Impairment begins with the first drink. Yet it has medicinal purposes. What a paradox.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Great Hymns of the faith...

And I’m ok with that. We’re talking about God’s word. It should sound different. It should stand out from the dribble we speak today. I don’t want it to sound like any other written work of today.
Right, because Jesus spoke in classical Greek instead of koine Greek.

In other words, your reasoning is flawed. Also, your opinion on the matter is quite thoroughly irrelevant.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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You assume a lot (and not just in the refrigeration dept). Without getting into 'refrigeration' methods such as ice, snow, cellars, stone caverns, cold rivers, etc, have you considered that grapes could be preserved, and then pressed when needed? Same with 'must' (already defined earlier). I pray you have considered what was already presented here, just a few responses back - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-to-drink-alcohol.191061/page-32#post-4205279
So you assume in that wedding party people save a grape and press it every 2 hours?

It is not in the Bible brother, so it is only your assumption too.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Alcohol impairment is today as it was then.
We as Kings are not to drink wine or strong drink at all lest our judgment be perverted. And we as Priests are not to drink wine or strong drink before we entered the inner court yard and the Tabernacle of the Congregation, the Temple so we can discern between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean. And we should be the example through Christ and put no stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in our brother's way.

Everyone is given a greater responsibility through Christ.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
(1Cor 3:16)
So you believe eve the word wine in the Bible have the same meaning as as the word wine today and it is mean alcoholic grape juice?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Pr 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

Impairment begins with the first drink. Yet it has medicinal purposes. What a paradox.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yes

Reminds me of this:

Luke 16:8
For the sons of this world are more shrewd in their generation than the sons of light.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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Talk about trying to 'drown' the OP. Can we move back to OP please?
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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is it your opinion that Proverbs is 'a wicked man's advice' ?

is this your idea of wisdom? reject the book of Proverbs as merely foolish human teaching?
Why do you bring the things out of your heart and label them as coming from mine, again that is folly.

If you are going to ask any questions then maybe you should ask yourself where did the thought that Proverbs is a wicked man's advice come from.

As far as your question regarding my idea of wisdom, if that would be my folly to give you instruction on getting wisdom seeing there if nothing in your hand, or is there :unsure:
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
933
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So you assume in that wedding party people save a grape and press it every 2 hours? ...
No, your question is based in a incorrect apriori (false assumption, ie "every 2 hours"). I did not assume what you thought I assumed. I assumed no such thing as you proffered for my position. Straw man.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
933
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Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to. NOBODY speaks King James english anymore, of whom I am aware. Can you please enlighten me as to where this 17th century place exists?
Actually, all the places I previously cited do, and including yourself (though you might not think so).

I am going to recommend a book to you, instead of citing over 635 pages of it. Here it is.

"Archaic Words And The Authorized Version" by Laurence M. Vance, PhD.

It demonstrates, that the so-called 'archaic' words of the KJB, are used in everyday modern English around the world, in everyday use, newspapers, videos, and even in the 'modern' versions (NIV, ASV, RV, etc, of which I may also demonstrate for you) etc. All with citation. You can find it VancePublications, or AVPublications. If you would like specific examples I can cite them from this source with page reference, as I own this book, and have it in hand as I type.

If you do not prefer to read, you can simply view the following, for a short summation of such things.

 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,152
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Actually, all the places I previously cited do, and including yourself (though you might not think so).

I am going to recommend a book to you, instead of citing over 635 pages of it. Here it is.

"Archaic Words And The Authorized Version" by Laurence M. Vance, PhD.

It demonstrates, that the so-called 'archaic' words of the KJB, are used in everyday modern English around the world, in everyday use, newspapers, videos, and even in the 'modern' versions (NIV, ASV, RV, etc, of which I may also demonstrate for you) etc. All with citation. You can find it VancePublications, or AVPublications. If you would like specific examples I can cite them from this source with page reference, as I own this book, and have it in hand as I type.

If you do not prefer to read, you can simply view the following, for a short summation of such things.

That video is part of a series that is the most biased piece of hogwash I have had the misfortune of viewing.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
28,568
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Why do you bring the things out of your heart and label them as coming from mine, again that is folly.

i'm asking questions - because i am not able to say what you are thinking and believing.
why don't you say 'no' or 'yes' ?
why leave it to my imagination? why leave me to have to make inferences?


If you are going to ask any questions then maybe you should ask yourself where did the thought that Proverbs is a wicked man's advice come from.
it came from people saying that alcohol is sinful, and from tempting people to sin being sinful.
who is it that gives people evil substances? a wicked man or a righteous man?
people are often quoting part of chapter 31 saying, see, it says wine is not for kings. and they say 'we are kings therefore it is sin for us'
but the very same scripture says kings should plead the cause of the poor and needy. the very same scripture says give wine and strong drink to the brokenhearted & destitute, so they can forget their misery.
so it is a very natural and straightforward conclusion that if one has the position all alcohol is sin, then it follows that giving alcohol to anyone is sin. this is what they say about John 2, 'surely Jesus didn't actually make wine He made mountain dew®' because it would be sin if Jesus gave anyone wine. that's the argument, and it's been made several times over in the last 30 pages. to give a person alcohol is wicked.
but this is what Proverbs 31:6-7 says. give beer to the brokenhearted. give wine to those in misery. let them drink and forget.

how is this reconciled?
you told me, it is reconciled by reading it as though the language is not what the language is. you say, this is reconciled by the Bible saying exactly the opposite of what the Bible says -- you say that it 'should be apparent' that the imperative word is not an imperative word. vis a vis.

does that really not make sense to you how logic demands the conclusion i'm asking you about?
i am not accusing you; i am asking you. because reason leads me to this conclusion from what i have read, yet i can scarcely believe what i am hearing! that is why i am asking, is this true? is this really the argument?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
28,568
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As far as your question regarding my idea of wisdom, if that would be my folly to give you instruction on getting wisdom seeing there if nothing in your hand, or is there :unsure:
they're not even my hands