Which Delivered Us from the Wrath to Come. (1Th 1:10)

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crossnote

crossnote

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#41
Nov 24, 2012
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#41
[Quotative-L, post: 4214065, member: 293343"]Not one scripture mentions a pre-trib rapture.[/QUOTE]
Then what is the wrath seen in Revelation all about and how are we delivered from 'the wrath to come'?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#42
Jan 17, 2020
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#42
crossnote said:
[Quotative-L, post: 4214065, member: 293343"]Not one scripture mentions a pre-trib rapture.
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Then what is the wrath seen in Revelation all about and how are we delivered from 'the wrath to come'?[/QUOTE]
Who's under the wrath but unbelievers?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#44
Jan 17, 2020
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#44
crossnote said:
What?? Do you think the terrible calamity going on in Revelation is just a fairy tale?
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Believers are never under wrath. Real believers count it a privilege to suffer on behalf of Christ. Ratpurists would rather not.
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#46
May 29, 2013
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#46
Nehemiah6 said:
You are so thoroughly confused that you really need to go to someone and humbly ask them to teach you sound doctrine. Right now that statement shows that you are clueless about (1) the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church (a single event) and (2) the end of the world (which never happens since God creates a New Heavens and a New Earth).
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I Thessalonians 4 says the dead in Christ shall rise first. So the resurrection is first, but just right before them which are alive and remain are raptured.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#47
Nov 24, 2012
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#47
Dave-L said:
Believers are never under wrath. Real believers count it a privilege to suffer on behalf of Christ. Ratpurists would rather not.
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That has absolutely nothing to do with what I am speaking about.
It seems you are denying a physical fury of God to be poured out on this unbelieving world.
If you acknowledge such, do you believe the Church will be here to experience it?
 
G

garee

Banned
#48
Mar 28, 2016
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#48
presidente said:
Prove this from scripture.
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He sets his approval of the whole book in that way .Not only inspired but signified the meaning. (Corinthians 4:18) Called it the hidden Manna in chapter 2 Revelation. Manna literally meaning "What is it"??? The bread of unfamiliarity .The daily bread of his will .

God is not a man as us. The signified food the disciples at first knew not of .Believing the unseen will of our father as he gives us his hidden understanding called parables.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

What would be the purpose for literalizing the signified understanding? Is the phrase thousand years the only word not used as a metaphor in that parable?
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#49
May 29, 2013
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#49
garee said:
He sets his approval of the whole book in that way .Not only inspired but signified the meaning. (Corinthians 4:18) Called it the hidden Manna in chapter 2 Revelation. Manna literally meaning "What is it"??? The bread of unfamiliarity .The daily bread of his will .

God is not a man as us. The signified food the disciples at first knew not of .Believing the unseen will of our father as he gives us his hidden understanding called parables.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

What would be the purpose for literalizing the signified understanding? Is the phrase thousand years the only word not used as a metaphor in that parable?
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What is your evidence from scripture that 1000 years signifies an undetermined period of time in Revelation?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#50
Jan 17, 2020
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#50
crossnote said:
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I am speaking about.
It seems you are denying a physical fury of God to be poured out on this unbelieving world.
If you acknowledge such, do you believe the Church will be here to experience it?
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Was Noah under wrath? How about Lot? How about Ps 91? and Passover?
 
G

garee

Banned
#51
Mar 28, 2016
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#51
presidente said:
What is your evidence from scripture that 1000 years signifies an undetermined period of time in Revelation?
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Other than it (thousand years ) is used 9 times as the golden measure to represent a unknown all 9 times.? (measure of faith ) not once 1=1 . or a thousands year is a day. and not as if it was 1 day .

Take that and add the prescription for the entire book is given in the opening words as not only inspired but also "signified"

The word thousand is used that way through out the bible it represents a unknown. God does not number people or time .
Thousands in 10's and 100's and at times 1 is used as to whatever in in view. Food, people time .

Ten equals all that will come.

Genesis 18:31-33 King James Version (KJV) And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

In the same way one is used a pattern throughout.

Luke 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Study the use of the word thousand and then decide. The number of times the the word thousand is used to represent a unknown could surprise some.

Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Not known no need to know.
 
G

garee

Banned
#52
Mar 28, 2016
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#52
Dave-L said:
Was Noah under wrath? How about Lot? How about Ps 91? and Passover?
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They are all under the wrath that is being revealed . The greater wrath or tribulation is dead

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Romans 1: 18

What greater tribulation is greater than the wrath of God? Why divide the same wrath ?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#53
Nov 24, 2012
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#53
Dave-L said:
Was Noah under wrath? How about Lot? How about Ps 91? and Passover?
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Noah was above the 'wrath' as the Church will be one day,. Lot was under testing, not wrath. Passover was just that, God's wrath passed over those who applied physical blood to their physical doorposts.
The point was, there was wrath revealed and Noah and the Israelites did not experience it.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#54
Jan 17, 2020
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#54
crossnote said:
Noah was above the 'wrath' as the Church will be one day,. Lot was under testing, not wrath. Passover was just that, God's wrath passed over those who applied physical blood to their physical doorposts.
The point was, there was wrath revealed and Noah and the Israelites did not experience it.
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Only unbelievers are under wrath. Or Christ died in vain.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#55
Nov 24, 2012
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#55
Dave-L said:
Only unbelievers are under wrath. Or Christ died in vain.
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According to your scenario, the Church also will taste of God's physical fury poured out on this world, seeing the Church is the same in the great trib as it is today. So I guess 'the wrath to come' is only spiritual for you even though in context in Revelation physical calamities are coming.
Revelation 6:17 (KJV) For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

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#56
Jan 17, 2020
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#56
crossnote said:
According to your scenario, the Church also will taste of God's physical fury poured out on this world, seeing the Church is the same in the great trib as it is today. So I guess 'the wrath to come' is only spiritual for you even though in context in Revelation physical calamities are coming.
Revelation 6:17 (KJV) For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
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“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#57
Nov 24, 2012
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#57
Dave-L said:
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)
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Why in 2000 years have we not seen that wrath that we see in Revelation chaps 6-19?
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#58
May 29, 2013
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#58
garee said:
Study the use of the word thousand and then decide. The number of times the the word thousand is used to represent a unknown could surprise some.
.
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If you have any evidence for that, then present it.
 
GaryA

GaryA

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#59
Aug 10, 2019
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#59
"the wrath to come" => 'Wrath of God' => Revelation 16 (the 'Vials')

The Seals and Trumpets are not part of the 'Wrath of God'.
 
massorite

massorite

Junior Member
#60
Jan 3, 2015
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#60
crossnote said:
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. (1Th 1:10)

I used to toy with the idea that 'the wrath to come' was a euphemism for hell.
Let's say it is, then what is all the destruction that goes on in Revelation and the sudden destruction that takes the world by surprise in 1Thess 5:3?

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
(1Th 5:3)

Let's say it is not a euphemism for hell but a brief description of the Great Tribulation which is to fall upon this world at a time they are unaware.

Matthew 24:38-39 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then would not 'which delivered us from the wrath to come' be referring to the rapture of the Church?
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The word "Tribulation in any verse is talking about afflictions, trials or temptations and the word "Wrath" when it comes to the wrath of god is always talking about the "Punishment of God". We are not appointed to suffer any of the Wrath/Punishment of God.
However we are instructed to count all trials as joy and to glory in all tribulations.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Suffering the Tribulation to come is not the same event as the wrath to come. Wrath and Tribulation speak of 2 different events that will take place at 2 different times. The Tribulation first which will be implemented against us and then the Wrath of God comes to punish those left behind after the resurrection.
 
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