Does man have a libertarian free will?

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Does man have a libertarian free will?

  • Yes, man has a libertarian free will

    Votes: 12 41.4%
  • No, man does not have a libertarian free will

    Votes: 16 55.2%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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God is unconditional Love (Grace). Free will = conditional love.
Not quite accurate. Unconditional grace is universalism. Limited atonement or predestination under Calvin theology is conditional. You have to be of the elect.

My Bible has the invitation for all who would believe.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Not quite accurate. Unconditional grace is universalism. Limited atonement or predestination under Calvin theology is conditional. You have to be of the elect.

My Bible has the invitation for all who would believe.
Unconditional love for the elect only.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,860
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If so, he owes the salvation of all if Christ died for all.
All who would believe. God will not force you to love Him. But God provided the way for all who would respond. This is elementary Christianity.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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Remember, God is Just.
As to why out of love God as incarnation sacrificed himself to appease being all just. But scripture says Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father. This involves faith and belief in Jesus's atoning work.
 
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All who would believe. God will not force you to love Him. But God provided the way for all who would respond. This is elementary Christianity.
This makes wicked people their own savior. It won't work.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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As to why out of love God as incarnation sacrificed himself to appease being all just. But scripture says Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father. This involves faith and belief in Jesus's atoning work.
Which comes from God, not from us.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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Which comes from God, not from us.
Scripture has 3 words. Faith (pistis) faith (pisteuo) and believe (pisteuo)

PISTEUO:
Hebrews 11:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.

PISTIS:
Ephesians 2:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

(4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,481
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= God's love is inferior, not unconditional.
I guess our vantage points are different. God placed conditions beginning with Adam & Eve for humans, and apparently with the Angels prior to that. Accountability and Justice are aspects of real love, not some maudlin human concept. Before you say I’m discounting grace, understand that the only ones who get what they deserve, are those that reject God’s unmerited grace and prefer to remain enemies.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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No it doesn't. We put our hope in the only source of our salvation.
= wicked people are their own saviors. = They are even more wicked because they rob God of his glory in salvation and credit themselves.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
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I guess our vantage points are different. God placed conditions beginning with Adam & Eve for humans, and apparently with the Angels prior to that. Accountability and Justice are aspects of real love, not some maudlin human concept. Before you say I’m discounting grace, understand that the only ones who get what they deserve, are those that reject God’s unmerited grace and prefer to remain enemies.
Grace = we don't deserve God's love.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
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Scripture has 3 words. Faith (pistis) faith (pisteuo) and believe (pisteuo)

PISTEUO:
Hebrews 11:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.

PISTIS:
Ephesians 2:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

(4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).
Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit = God must save a person before they can believe.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,860
4,513
113
= wicked people are their own saviors. = They are even more wicked because they rob God of his glory in salvation and credit themselves.
Wicked people as in free will believers? Good luck with that. No free will theological believer thinks of themselves as a Savior. This is your opinion.