Does man have a libertarian free will?

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Does man have a libertarian free will?

  • Yes, man has a libertarian free will

    Votes: 12 41.4%
  • No, man does not have a libertarian free will

    Votes: 16 55.2%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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You love the God you choose to worship. I love God who chose to save me.
The invitation is to all

1 John 2:2 (ESV)
2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

For all who would believe and repent

Mark 1:15 (ESV)
15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

John 3:15-18 (ESV)
15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

No room for elitism. The Jews had the same mentality. The chosen people surely doesn't include the Gentiles. God set them straight just as He will with those who believe limited Atonement.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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The invitation is to all

1 John 2:2 (ESV)
2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

For all who would believe and repent

Mark 1:15 (ESV)
15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

John 3:15-18 (ESV)
15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

No room for elitism. The Jews had the same mentality. The chosen people surely doesn't include the Gentiles. God set them straight just as He will with those who believe limited Atonement.
You are depending on free will to shape how you interpret these verses. Try reading them apart from that bias.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,839
4,493
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Good so I assume you agree, dont understand or dont know how to address the information. It is quite evident. All it takes is a interlinear book to cross examine Greek words to English.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Good so I assume you agree, dont understand or dont know how to address the information. It is quite evident. All it takes is a interlinear book to cross examine Greek words to English.
I have a reliable library.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,839
4,493
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You are depending on free will to shape how you interpret these verses. Try reading them apart from that bias.
I get the free will concept from the very beginning. God being a free will agent chose to create.

Then creates beings in His likeness.

Angels had free will to obey or rebel.

Adam and Eve had a choice and 1 ought not command.

And on and on you see God command people to return, to listen, to repent.

None of it makes since if God does all that for them.

One has to be intellectually ignorant or lives in logical fallacies to get any other interpretation. Those scriptures speak quite clearly to whoever believe and Chrst took the sins of the world. The only way that is possible within the context of Hell is that people have a choice to accept or deny.

How is this that hard to understand? How can you deny something so obvious? If God chose some to be evil that makes God the author of evil.

Free will also explains evil better than anything else.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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I get the free will concept from the very beginning. God being a free will agent chose to create.

Then creates beings in His likeness.

Angels had free will to obey or rebel.

Adam and Eve had a choice and 1 ought not command.

And on and on you see God command people to return, to listen, to repent.

None of it makes since if God does all that for them.

One has to be intellectually ignorant or lives in logical fallacies to get any other interpretation. Those scriptures speak quite clearly to whoever believe and Chrst took the sins of the world. The only way that is possible within the context of Hell is that people have a choice to accept or deny.

How is this that hard to understand? How can you deny something so obvious? If God chose some to be evil that makes God the author of evil.

Free will also explains evil better than anything else.
But the free will agent lost his free will being damned.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,839
4,493
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But the free will agent lost his free will being damned.
God is still our ultimate judge and master. God is still who holds life and death. God honors our decision. God technically doesn't send anyone to Hell. They chose to go. They chose a place without God which is what God honors as just. Because any place without God is Hell in His very absence.

We either accept Christ for what He has done and that is belief in knowing we couldn't pay our debt.

Or we deny Him and God honors both decisions by 2 different eternal locations. Heaven and Hell.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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God is still our ultimate judge and master. God is still who holds life and death. God honors our decision. God technically doesn't send anyone to Hell. They chose to go. They chose a place without God which is what God honors as just. Because any place without God is Hell in His very absence.

We either accept Christ for what He has done and that is belief in knowing we couldn't pay our debt.

Or we deny Him and God honors both decisions by 2 different eternal locations. Heaven and Hell.
It doesn't work this way. You turn God into a bully who tells people to "say uncle" or else.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,839
4,493
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It doesn't work this way. You turn God into a bully who tells people to "say uncle" or else.
How?

God literally in incarceration gave His life for people's souls.

God literally says all are without excuse. God pursues, works, speaks, and moves in people's lives for that statement to be true.

Say uncle or else doesn't work when they are choosing the else. That gives the image of force.

Which technically is your theology.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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How?

God literally in incarceration gave His life for people's souls.

God literally says all are without excuse. God pursues, works, speaks, and moves in people's lives for that statement to be true.

Say uncle or else doesn't work when they are choosing the else. That gives the image of force.

Which technically is your theology.
Free will turns God into a bully threatening torture unless you say "uncle". Or bribing people with pleasure if they do.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,839
4,493
113
Free will turns God into a bully threatening torture unless you say "uncle". Or bribing people with pleasure if they do.
Choice isnt a bully. Bullies dont ask they just work by force. Which is your theology.

Limited Atonement turns God into a evil dictator that creates a majority of mankind to be sent to Hell. Literally created to go to Hell. All God had to to was elect them or predestined them. But one key word limit Atonement believers leave out is foreknowledge. Without that word then elect sounds unjust and predestined sounds like predestination.

Also just to correct you. Bible says torment not torture.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Choice isnt a bully. Bullies dont ask they just work by force. Which is your theology.

Limited Atonement turns God into a evil dictator that creates a majority of mankind to be sent to Hell. Literally created to go to Hell. All God had to to was elect them or predestined them. But one key word limit Atonement believers leave out is foreknowledge. Without that word then elect sounds unjust and predestined sounds like predestination.

Also just to correct you. Bible says torment not torture.
So you hate God if limited atonement is true?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,839
4,493
113
Free will turns God into a bully threatening torture unless you say "uncle". Or bribing people with pleasure if they do.
Just curious are you a free will thinker?