The "Man of Sin" Prophecies

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#141
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#141
Blain said:
Besides I believe it speaks of the great city in revelations not holy city, Rome was the great city back then but not the holy one
Click to expand...
This is another area you are going wrong Blain:

(Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.)

The identity of the great city does not change from the above on - John does call it afterwards in the same fashion as "Sodom and Egypt"

(Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.)

If you can claim Rome is being called "Babylon"by John then so can Jerusalem.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#142
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#142
God hating, Jesus killing, antichrist, enemies of the gospel ARE NOT the Israel that is the apple of Gods eye.... geez.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#143
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#143
azamzimtoti said:
This is another area you are going wrong Blain:

(Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.)

The identity of the great city does not change from the above on - John does call it afterwards in the same fashion as "Sodom and Egypt"

(Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.)

If you can claim Rome is being called "Babylon"by John then so can Jerusalem.
Click to expand...
Hello azamzimtoti!

As have said many times, it is important that we do not pigeonhole names or phrases within the book of Revelation. Just because the phrase "great city" is used in regards to Jerusalem where those two witnesses lie dead, does not mean that it is referring to the great city of Babylon the great. For example, in Rev.12 there is "a woman" clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars. We also have "a woman" in Revelation 17 who rides the beast. If we were to make these women as referring to the same woman, we would be wrong, for they are figurative of two different women. You can't have one cared for by God out in the wilderness and God destroying the other and them both being the same woman. The phrase "great city" is just that, a phrase. It is the context that will bear out who the symbolism is being referred to. That would be like saying that everywhere the word "trumpet" is used that it is referring to the same trumpet.

Search out all of the word of God and not just some scriptures to make conclusions from.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#144
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#144
This is too bizarre, we have a group of people who can’t discern between the enemies of the gospel and Gods elect and yet they feel like they’re end times experts.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#145
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#145
Ahwatukee said:
I believe that the "beast coming up out of the sea" is figurative, i.e. not referring to the literal ocean. According to scripture, the Abyss gk (abussos) is a place under the earth. For example:

"The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.

========================================================================================
"They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer)."

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction.

"“What is your name?” Jesus asked.

“Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And the demons kept begging Jesus not to order them to go into the Abyss"

"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.
=======================================================================================

Strong's Concordance
abussos: boundless, bottomless
Original Word: ἄβυσσος, ου, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: abussos
Phonetic Spelling: (ab'-us-sos)
Definition: boundless, bottomless
Usage: the abyss, unfathomable depth, an especially Jewish conception, the home of the dead and of evil spirits.

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from alpha (as a neg. prefix) and bussos = buthos
Definition
boundless, bottomless
NASB Translation
abyss (7), bottomless (2).

The sea can be and is referred to as being Abyssal in literature because of its depths. However, in scripture it appears to be a place under the depths of the earth, which is usually referred to as a place where demons are imprisoned.
Click to expand...
Well I figured the sea wasn't literal I thought it was possible it was a figurative for the world since water often times seems to point being symbolic as such like how we come out of the world into a new life in Christ( water baptism) how 70 percent of the world is covered in water and also happens to be the same percentage of the human body but I did say it was a possibility not actual facts so I guess even if it was only that I was way off base.
The abyss is where demons are imrpisoned correct? so this beast that comes out with seven heads tend horns and crowns I am guess I was off base as well?
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#146
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#146
KJV1611 said:
This is too bizarre, we have a group of people who can’t discern between the enemies of the gospel and Gods elect and yet they feel like they’re end times experts.
Click to expand...
Enemies of gospel? you mean here in cc? as for end times expert I sincerely hope no one actually thinks that of themselves because they would be greatly mistaken. I don't think anyone can be an expert in this area especially since the book of end times is sealed until the appointed time, until then we can maybe discern pieces of the puzzle but the entire picture is most likely not what we were expecting
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#147
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#147
Blain said:
Enemies of gospel? you mean here in cc? as for end times expert I sincerely hope no one actually thinks that of themselves because they would be greatly mistaken. I don't think anyone can be an expert in this area especially since the book of end times is sealed until the appointed time, until then we can maybe discern pieces of the puzzle but the entire picture is most likely not what we were expecting
Click to expand...
Not people here Blain. The unsaved Jews are the enemies of the gospel.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#148
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#148
KJV1611 said:
Not people here Blain. The unsaved Jews are the enemies of the gospel.
Click to expand...
Admittedly I am not exactly well informed about their salvation. I have heard it is more about tradition than actual faith but I also cannot say for sure.
But even so while we may jews spiritually they still are his chosen people, he never forsook them all throughout their jounreys in scripture and has always been very protective of them.
Though I prefer not to call any lost soul an enemy of the gospel more like lost sheep, after all the great shepherd will go to the extremes to save even one lost sheep so that is what I prefer to call them.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#149
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#149
Blain said:
Admittedly I am not exactly well informed about their salvation. I have heard it is more about tradition than actual faith but I also cannot say for sure.
But even so while we may jews spiritually they still are his chosen people, he never forsook them all throughout their jounreys in scripture and has always been very protective of them.
Though I prefer not to call any lost soul an enemy of the gospel more like lost sheep, after all the great shepherd will go to the extremes to save even one lost sheep so that is what I prefer to call them.
Click to expand...
The Bible calls unsaved Jews the enemies of the gospel.

Rom 11:28 (KJV) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#150
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#150
Blain said:
the book of end times is sealed until the appointed time
Click to expand...
John's revelation was not sealed when he wrote it:

(Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.)
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#151
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#151
Blain said:
Well I figured the sea wasn't literal I thought it was possible it was a figurative for the world since water often times seems to point being symbolic as such like how we come out of the world into a new life in Christ( water baptism) how 70 percent of the world is covered in water and also happens to be the same percentage of the human body but I did say it was a possibility not actual facts so I guess even if it was only that I was way off base.
The abyss is where demons are imrpisoned correct? so this beast that comes out with seven heads tend horns and crowns I am guess I was off base as well?
Click to expand...
Well, the beast with seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns symbolically represents Satan as the one orchestrating in the background (Rev.12:3-4, 9)

Then in Rev.17:9-10, 12 we are what the seven heads and ten horns represent:

Seven heads: The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings.

Ten Horns: The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.

So the beast and the parts mentioned represent different things. The angel of the Abyss will be that eighth king who belongs to the seven and will come up out of the Abyss. He will be the power behind the antichrist. He is that same head that receives a deadly wound and is healed.
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#152
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#152
Blain said:
Well like I said it is a possibility so take what I said with a grain of salt but it is believed by some that the beast resembling the kingdoms is what the new world order is to beecome. This new world order is supposed to be a good thing at first but it is corrupt an agenda made by the enemy himself. Supposdly this new world order will also make a new world religion which is why the name blasphemy is written on the beast, the antichrist is believed to be the head of this order and power will be given to him by the order aka the beast.

As we speak this new world order and religion is being planned to be implamented by a certain group which you may have heard of called the Illuminati, I only know because my sister is a part of it and tried to recruit me and she told me how they are planning this and that it isn't for world domination but to bring peace and safety.
Although I admit I was confused when she said if she is suddenly taken to the sky not to look for her or worry about her, when I asked her what she meant by that she refused to answer.

Denying the holy spirit and God himself making a new religion and attempting to govern the world is why I assume they were thrown into the lake of fire. but as I said it is a possiblity as for what I actually believe I do think this is a likely scenario but as with much of revelations it likely will not be fully understood or revealed until the appointed time
Click to expand...
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#153
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#153
azamzimtoti said:
John's revelation was not sealed when he wrote it:

(Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.)
Click to expand...
Yeah that was my bad I was thinking of the book of Daniel
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#154
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#154
There was nothing in your reply could you repost it?
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#155
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#155
Ahwatukee said:
Well, the beast with seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns symbolically represents Satan as the one orchestrating in the background (Rev.12:3-4, 9)

Then in Rev.17:9-10, 12 we are what the seven heads and ten horns represent:

Seven heads: The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings.

Ten Horns: The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.

So the beast and the parts mentioned represent different things. The angel of the Abyss will be that eighth king who belongs to the seven and will come up out of the Abyss. He will be the power behind the antichrist. He is that same head that receives a deadly wound and is healed.
Click to expand...
Ah I see, So then that theory about it representing kingdoms was incorrect. I suppose it is a good thing I didn't put to much stalk in it. I know this one interpretation people believe but I haven't done end times bible studies in a long time so hopefully when my eyes are fully healed I can continue that I will try to remember all this but you will have to forgive me if I forget I usually have to write everything down to remember it
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#157
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#157
miknik5 said:
Hi Blain, If you were talking about my post, you are right. I have no idea how it posted.
Click to expand...
lol no worries it has happened to me before too
 
Yahshua

Yahshua

Senior Member
#158
Sep 22, 2013
2,758
715
113
#158
iamsoandso said:
Respectfully,,,
The position you hold to is seemingly similar to Robert Fleming the younger or Issac Newton in that they saw these things as unfolding across time from then till now and to the end. Although my position is similar the man of sin is the issue in my difference of opinion .

Now this is why and where I deviate from this https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+17:8&version=KJV which is that the beast that was to rise from the pit in Rev. 17:8 is "in the pit" at the time that the Revelation was seen and explained by the angel to John.

Now if this is the head that received the wound then if the Revelation was given in the first century(approx-ad66-96) then he had existed prior to that time and had already received it's wound prior to the writing of Revelation.

You are saying it is Catholicism which did not exist as an head of the beast prior to the writing of Revelation. The head of the beast that received the deadly wound that is denoted in Scripture existed prior to Revelation 17:8 and was in the bottomless pit at that time and ascends up out of the bottomless pit future tense to it being seen by John at Patmos.
Click to expand...
Ok I see where you're coming from.

No, I'm not saying the beast is Catholicism. I'm saying the office of the Roman Papacy; Papal Rome is the beast; the man of sin. If I had to label Catholicism, it would be the great harlot (as a congregation of people) just like the Almighty's people are his faithful bride. The great harlot rides the beast.

----

Revelation 17:8 & 10-11
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while

11 The beast that was, and now is not, is an eighth king, who belongs to the other seven and is going into destruction.


So this beast was, but then wasn't and yet will be. So we have a morphing of sorts that happens to this beast.

Letting the scriptures define the scriptures, we learn from the explanation given to Daniel that beasts represent kingdoms/empires, confirmed by the angel in verse 11. So at a basic level, we have a kingdom/empire that came to exist, where:

- Five previous world-ruling kingdoms are gone.

- The 6th world-ruling kingdom is contemporary with John...we know this was The Roman Empire. It was definitely the head/king that IS in John's time.

- The next ruling kingdom after Rome hadn't appeared in John's time, but when it appears it will have a short rule comparatively.

- Then the 8th kingdom will come from the previous and is the particular kingdom that will go into "perdition" (i.e. be destroyed by the Messiah per 2 Thessalonians 2).

----

Ok, so with the Roman Empire as our marker, let's compare scripture with history to prove why I believe "the man of sin" is the Papacy:

- We know The Roman Empire is the 6th kingdom

- In 395 AD The Roman Empire split into world-ruling empires: (Eastern) Byzantium & (Western) Roman Empire. So the 6th kingdom birth the 7th.

- In 476 AD The Roman Empire (western) is sacked and falls.

- In 538 AD The Papacy ascends in powers within the remaining Byzantine Empire, installed by the emperor and acquires land (i.e. the papal states) and an army. It's literally considered a sovereign kingdom, even today. 8th Kingdom of the seven.

- In 1453 Byzantium falls, but Papacy remains as a kingdom, gaining in authority, installing kings, and establishing papal bulls that sanction the persecution of 'heretics' of the faith as well as outlawing the possessing of the scriptures. He also speaks pompously blasphemous words like "Papa/Father", "Christ Vicariously", "Holds the place of God on earth"; changed times and laws, set new holy days, specifically persecuted the Jews and believing gentiles who protested their practices.

- In 1798 the papacy was ended by the French and was no longer a kingdom. But in 1929 Papal Rome was revived as a sovereign kingdom and has been with us since that time. Newspaper clippings even literally said, "wound healed".

Next, we have...


Revelation 17:12-13
12 The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast.

13 These kings have one purpose: to yield their power and authority to the beast


So there would be 10 kingdoms that hadn't yet come to power in John's time but that would rise to power and rule for a short time as contemporaries with "the beast", yielding their authority to him.

Historically there were 10 germanic kingdoms that rose to power after the Roman empire and eventually submitted to Papal Rome (either willingly or by force), and they were:

Alemanni

Suevi

Visigoths

Vandals (extinct)

Franks

Anglo-Saxons

Heruli (extinct)

Ostrogoths (extinct)

Lombards

Burgundians
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#159
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#159
The great harlot is sin, evil...itś simply the woman in the basket as spoken of in Zechariah...and...it isn´t identified to one group of people...
 
Yahshua

Yahshua

Senior Member
#160
Sep 22, 2013
2,758
715
113
#160
miknik5 said:
The great harlot is sin, evil...itś simply the woman in the basket as spoken of in Zechariah...and...it isn´t identified to one group of people...
Click to expand...
Interestingly enough, if you take a look at that word translated as "woman" it's very close to the Hebrew word for "fire". I think it was a small scribal error that changed it to "woman".

Notice the prophetic description given to Zechariah in chapter 5:

- it's a roll (or scroll)

- It flies

- It has a lead ephah (or lead container)

- which has "ish" (fire) in it and is called "wickedness"; "iniquity"

- It is sent as a curse throughout the whole world to all the thieves and those who sware falsely

- It enters into homes and consumes everything

- Carried by two "fires" with wings like a stork (a stork's wings don't flap when gliding through the air).




I thought this was pretty amazing when I learned it. The Almighty prophesied the curse of modern warfare. one small jot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.