The Reason You are Told that God No Longer Speaks.

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breno785au

breno785au

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#61
Jul 23, 2013
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#61
Dave-L said:
But he speaks only through scripture. Paul says it thoroughly furnishes us. People imagine God is speaking to them and end up in all kinds of difficulties. Even when tongues and prophecy were in the church before the scriptures were complete, Paul said they only gave partial knowledge. So it's important to take the sword of the Spirit that is the Word of God.
Click to expand...
This is what you've been taught.

Millions of peoples genuine experiences with God trump that interpretation.
He doesn't change.
He was speaking at the beginning, and He hasn't stopped now. No need to be afraid of going beyond what the flesh can handle.
He spoke to Adam, He spoke to murderous Cain, but He doesn't speak to His children?

No father hands their child a book and says, "This is all you need to know about me, now go." The child will cry out, "I don't want to know about you! I want to KNOW you!"

Certainly He speaks though His written word but it certainly isn't the only way He speaks.

I have said my peace, I'm not going to try and convince, many won't receive it, that's to be expected.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#62
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#62
breno785au said:
This is what you've been taught.

Millions of peoples genuine experiences with God trump that interpretation.
He doesn't change.
He was speaking at the beginning, and He hasn't stopped now. No need to be afraid of going beyond what the flesh can handle.
He spoke to Adam, He spoke to murderous Cain, but He doesn't speak to His children?

No father hands their child a book and says, "This is all you need to know about me, now go." The child will cry out, "I don't want to know about you! I want to KNOW you!"

Certainly He speaks though His written word but it certainly isn't the only way He speaks.

I have said my peace, I'm not going to try and convince, many won't receive it, that's to be expected.
Click to expand...
Reading and believing what is written will clarify matters of this sort. I will not convince you especially if you discount the word of God.

Hebrew 1:1-2 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#63
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#63
breno785au said:
This is what you've been taught.

Millions of peoples genuine experiences with God trump that interpretation.
He doesn't change.
He was speaking at the beginning, and He hasn't stopped now. No need to be afraid of going beyond what the flesh can handle.
He spoke to Adam, He spoke to murderous Cain, but He doesn't speak to His children?

No father hands their child a book and says, "This is all you need to know about me, now go." The child will cry out, "I don't want to know about you! I want to KNOW you!"

Certainly He speaks though His written word but it certainly isn't the only way He speaks.

I have said my peace, I'm not going to try and convince, many won't receive it, that's to be expected.
Click to expand...
This is hard to prove. Many crazy people claim to hear God speak. We know that from many criminal files.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#64
Jun 30, 2015
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#64
Dave-L said:
This is hard to prove. Many crazy people claim to hear God speak. We know that from many criminal files.
Click to expand...
Fallacy: guilt by association.
 
M

MattforJesus

Banned
#65
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#65
KelbyofGod said:
Most people are honest enough to admit that they are (or at least were) "blind". In other words, we admit that we didn't know God, or had difficulty understanding what is really being said in the bible. And although perhaps embarrassed, we were humble enough to receive instruction from someone who is willing to guide us.

Then, at some point, we met someone who said "Hey, you need to know about God (or Jesus). Let me teach you."

And we said "Ok. That sounds good." And we began to let them lead us, or perhaps to take us to someone even more knowledgeable. And they began to teach us how to "see" certain scriptures.

However, there is a danger hidden within this scenario, and Jesus warns us about it. He said "If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

The question becomes "Wow, that's a scary thought. How could I find out if the person that leads me is blind?"

Well, you could ask the person leading you how to recognize a "blind leader". And I almost guarantee that they will give you an answer that does not point at him or herself as a blind leader.

What most will do is to point you to the scriptures to find the answers....encouraging you to revisit the scriptures they've told you are the most important ones... and that they've been teaching you how to interpret. Please don't miss the importance of the previous sentence. They know what you will find if you look at the scriptures the way they have taught you.

Now you're left with a problem.... How can you know the TRUTH if you may have been taught to "see" by the blind?

If you look at the scriptures by the way you were taught, you will only find the answers you’ve been taught to find...“Seeing” the scriptures through the eyes of your leaders, whether they are blind or not.

If you try to look at the scriptures without what you’ve been taught, you’re only left with yourself...and you’ve already admitted that you were blind before learning from your leaders.

So what should you do about this problem?

Simple… When we can’t “see” and don’t know who to trust, we need to directly ask the only person we can truly trust (God) until he answers.

God cannot lie. And he will only speak truth...even about your leaders. If they are blind leaders, God would tell that truth to you if you ever gain the ability to hear from God directly...and THAT is the reason you are told that God no longer speaks.

Does God speak? Yes. He says “My sheep hear my voice”. And he cannot lie. <--that means he still speaks and at least some still hear..

So... Have you heard his voice? If not, you should be asking sincerely why not, and how you can. But I recommend that you ask the one you can trust, not the ones you should have asked about before trusting them with your eternity. (You need to go to God, not man...not even me, if you REALLY want to know the truth.)

BTW, Just because you can’t see clearly doesn’t mean you can’t hear. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

“He that hath an ear, let him hear.”
Click to expand...
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Blessed is the person that has not seen Jesus, but still believes for it is based on faith.

Which faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, which when a person is saved the kingdom is revealed to them by the Spirit.

The disciples, and Paul, did not need faith for they seen the resurrected Jesus, which Paul did on the road to Damascus, but everybody else after them need faith.

A person will not see Jesus for it is of faith, for if we seen we would believe because we have seen, and some people say they have seen Jesus, but they have not.

But after a person is saved by faith they might hear a voice from God for the kingdom is revealed to them.

I have not heard a voice from God, but maybe some people need it, but the Spirit will prompt us to do what is right, and to reach out to people.

Is hearing a voice from God a violation of faith, and faith comes from hearing the word of God.

In the Old Testament God said call on to me, and I will answer you, but Jesus said to the Jews they have never heard God's voice.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Act 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

It is good to listen to people when they tell the word of God, but we have to search it out ourselves.

If all people when saved read the Bible, or going to a denomination to get a laid out plan of the interpretation of the Bible, what would be the better state of people in being in the truth.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#66
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
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#66
KelbyofGod said:
Most people are honest enough to admit that they are (or at least were) "blind". In other words, we admit that we didn't know God, or had difficulty understanding what is really being said in the bible. And although perhaps embarrassed, we were humble enough to receive instruction from someone who is willing to guide us.

Then, at some point, we met someone who said "Hey, you need to know about God (or Jesus). Let me teach you."

And we said "Ok. That sounds good." And we began to let them lead us, or perhaps to take us to someone even more knowledgeable. And they began to teach us how to "see" certain scriptures.

However, there is a danger hidden within this scenario, and Jesus warns us about it. He said "If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

The question becomes "Wow, that's a scary thought. How could I find out if the person that leads me is blind?"

Well, you could ask the person leading you how to recognize a "blind leader". And I almost guarantee that they will give you an answer that does not point at him or herself as a blind leader.

What most will do is to point you to the scriptures to find the answers....encouraging you to revisit the scriptures they've told you are the most important ones... and that they've been teaching you how to interpret. Please don't miss the importance of the previous sentence. They know what you will find if you look at the scriptures the way they have taught you.

Now you're left with a problem.... How can you know the TRUTH if you may have been taught to "see" by the blind?

If you look at the scriptures by the way you were taught, you will only find the answers you’ve been taught to find...“Seeing” the scriptures through the eyes of your leaders, whether they are blind or not.

If you try to look at the scriptures without what you’ve been taught, you’re only left with yourself...and you’ve already admitted that you were blind before learning from your leaders.

So what should you do about this problem?

Simple… When we can’t “see” and don’t know who to trust, we need to directly ask the only person we can truly trust (God) until he answers.

God cannot lie. And he will only speak truth...even about your leaders. If they are blind leaders, God would tell that truth to you if you ever gain the ability to hear from God directly...and THAT is the reason you are told that God no longer speaks.

Does God speak? Yes. He says “My sheep hear my voice”. And he cannot lie. <--that means he still speaks and at least some still hear..

So... Have you heard his voice? If not, you should be asking sincerely why not, and how you can. But I recommend that you ask the one you can trust, not the ones you should have asked about before trusting them with your eternity. (You need to go to God, not man...not even me, if you REALLY want to know the truth.)

BTW, Just because you can’t see clearly doesn’t mean you can’t hear. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

“He that hath an ear, let him hear.”
Click to expand...
Absolutely amazing post well done indeed. You know sometimes it is a good thing to blind not to lead but to be guided. it is only when we cannot see that our hearts ears are truly clear to hear just as how if you lose your eye sight your other senses are strengthened in the sdame way when we cannot see and put down our map of knowledge and sight that is when we become blind but in the way that he is now able to correctly guide us and speak to us.

As far as his voice oh boy don't get me started on that or you will have to read several long posts I am extremely passionate about that subject and become very excited to speak of it XD
 
Subhumanoidal

Subhumanoidal

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Sep 17, 2018
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#67
Yet another thread that shoves everyone into a category to make their point work. The problem is not everyone fits into your category. Therefore your claim falls apart.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#68
Jul 18, 2017
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#68
KelbyofGod said:
THAT is the reason you are told that God no longer speaks.
Click to expand...
People who believe that the Holy Bible is the Word of God will never say such a thing. Therefore Christians will not make such a ludicrous statement.

1. God speaks to men primarily through His written Word. That's the reason for its existence.

2. The Holy Spirit speaks to hearts and minds while the Word is preached or read.

3. The Holy Spirit convicts and convinces sinners and draws them to Christ.

4. God also speaks to Christians as well as unbelievers (a) through others or (b) directly and internally. But not necessarily audibly.

There is actually a "World Hearing Voices Congress"!
"Recently, Waddingham and more than 200 other voice-hearers from around the world gathered in Thessaloniki, Greece, for the sixth annual World Hearing Voices Congress, organised by Intervoice, an international network of people who hear voices and their supporters"
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...e-being-encouraged-to-talk-back-10001499.html

However, those claiming to hear voices and then going out and committing heinous crimes are hearing demonic spirits. Even worse are people claiming to be God and then killing others.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#69
Jun 30, 2015
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#69
Nehemiah6 said:
People who believe that the Holy Bible is the Word of God will never say such a thing. Therefore Christians will not make such a ludicrous statement.

1. God speaks to men primarily through His written Word. That's the reason for its existence.

2. The Holy Spirit speaks to hearts and minds while the Word is preached or read.

3. The Holy Spirit convicts and convinces sinners and draws them to Christ.

4. God also speaks to Christians as well as unbelievers (a) through others or (b) directly and internally. But not necessarily audibly.

There is actually a "World Hearing Voices Congress"!
"Recently, Waddingham and more than 200 other voice-hearers from around the world gathered in Thessaloniki, Greece, for the sixth annual World Hearing Voices Congress, organised by Intervoice, an international network of people who hear voices and their supporters"
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...e-being-encouraged-to-talk-back-10001499.html

However, those claiming to hear voices and then going out and committing heinous crimes are hearing demonic spirits. Even worse are people claiming to be God and then killing others.
Click to expand...
The two types you mention are both very unfortunate, but your post makes it sound like those are the only two kinds. There are forms of "voice hearing" that don't involve killing others.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#70
Aug 28, 2012
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#70
scripture is not the only way he speaks to us. I have heard his voice outloud only once but he taught me how to hear his voice with my heart. Have you ever seen a small child laughing and playing? that is God's voice. Have you ever suddenly learned or gained understanding about God from watching a movie or show that isn't even about him? that is his voice. Have you ever felt the cool breeze of the wind blow on your face or soaked in the warm sun letting it soak in your skin or heard a song that just spoke to you? that also is his voice. He can and will use anything to speak to and teach his children you just have to know how to listen
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#71
Oct 8, 2017
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#71
Hi All,
Just getting back to this... It's been a long and busy 25 hours. I'll see how many points I can address...

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#72
Oct 8, 2017
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#72
BTW, has ChristianChat been doing a crack down on negative postings? It seems like everyone is showing a surprising amount of compassion in their answers. I'm kind of surprised, actually. And it's encouraging! :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#73
Oct 8, 2017
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#73
Dave-L said:
But he speaks only through scripture. Paul says it thoroughly furnishes us. People imagine God is speaking to them and end up in all kinds of difficulties. Even when tongues and prophecy were in the church before the scriptures were complete, Paul said they only gave partial knowledge. So it's important to take the sword of the Spirit that is the Word of God.
Click to expand...
Hi Dave,
I've added bold to show the part of your quote that I'll be addressing. I hope that's ok.

You said God only speaks through scripture.... but you didn't post a verse that states "God only speaks through scripture". That seems a little hypocritical, to be honest. BTW, I only recently discovered that hypocricy means "the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense."

If you are trying to say that recorded scripture is all the truth we need, then it seems counterproductive to believe or promote a statement such as "God only speaks through scripture" that itself is not written in scripture.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#74
Oct 8, 2017
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#74
notuptome said:
When you start out with a premise formed in error you will always end in error. The blind leading the blind is not Christians discipling one another. The blind leading the blind is unbelievers leading unbelievers into error and away from truth.

Christians are commanded to disciple new believers, baptizing them in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit leads believers into the truth, yea the Truth.

Of course you cannot teach the truth if you do not know the Truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
Roger,

If "Blind" = Unbelieving and "a blind person" = an unbeliever then we could use that terminology in order to test my proposal.

#1 My first main supposition was that we all start out as "Blind"/unbelievers (people who needed to "see"/believe if we want salvation). Am I starting out correct, or do you know someone who was born a believer/"seeing" (with no need to be born again before being considered "a believer")?

Or to say it another way... #2 Do we start out as Christian, or non-Christian? Remember... not Christian = unbeliever = blind.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#75
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#75
Subhumanoidal said:
Yet another thread that shoves everyone into a category to make their point work. The problem is not everyone fits into your category. Therefore your claim falls apart.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what category you feel I'm shoving everone into. Would you mind clarifying?

I did propose that:
1. We all started out needing help. s
2. Someone came to help.
3. That person could be seeing...or could be blind.
4. It is VERY important to find out which they are (seeing or blind)
5. We'll need to go to God (not rely on our own self, or them) if we REALLY want to find out.
6. God is faithful to answer.

In points numbered 1 & 5 I see where "everyone" is being referenced but I'm not sure if either of those is what you mean.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#76
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#76
Nehemiah6 said:
People who believe that the Holy Bible is the Word of God will never say such a thing. Therefore Christians will not make such a ludicrous statement.

1. God speaks to men primarily through His written Word. That's the reason for its existence.

2. The Holy Spirit speaks to hearts and minds while the Word is preached or read.

3. The Holy Spirit convicts and convinces sinners and draws them to Christ.

4. God also speaks to Christians as well as unbelievers (a) through others or (b) directly and internally. But not necessarily audibly.

There is actually a "World Hearing Voices Congress"!
"Recently, Waddingham and more than 200 other voice-hearers from around the world gathered in Thessaloniki, Greece, for the sixth annual World Hearing Voices Congress, organised by Intervoice, an international network of people who hear voices and their supporters"
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...e-being-encouraged-to-talk-back-10001499.html

However, those claiming to hear voices and then going out and committing heinous crimes are hearing demonic spirits. Even worse are people claiming to be God and then killing others.
Click to expand...
Nehemiah,

#1. You seem to be forgetting that the method of its existence is that God speaks to people and they are able to hear his voice...that's how most of his written word got written in the first place. And where does the bible say that God speaks primarily through his written word? A significant portion of the word is just prophecy that is written down...which means he was speaking through prophecy. (And no, prophecy is not my favorite even though I mention it several times in this post)

#2. I wouldn't argue against that. I would, however, point out that (according to the bible) He also speaks to the hearts and minds during prophecy (which is when the spirit of the Lord is speaking to man, through man) and through dreams, visions, a word of wisdom, a word of knowledge, teaching, and even a still small voice, or directly from heaven...or by a message given by an angel, or in the ear in a closet so it can be preached upon the housetops.

3. Yes, and he does this during prophecy, too, promising that if all prophesy and there comes in one that is unlearned or an unbeliever, he will be convinced of all, judged of all, the secrets of his heart will be manifest and he will fall down on his knees and worship God and report that God is in you of a truth (Not that he will report that you're all crazy, as your additional information suggests should be done).

4. Please notice that I didn't demand "audibly". I quite understand that God can speak internally, and/or in dreams and the other ways he has recorded. I'm not trying to throttle or limit him to one way or another (as some seem to do). I'm saying that it's IMPORTANT to seek him until you reach him.

And for my Additional Information... I'm wanting people to seek God to the point where they can easily recognize the difference between God's voice and their own thoughts. Because one of those will lead us to truth and the other will lead us astray.

Continually for you,
Kelby
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#77
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#77
It is my faith based belief and experience that God has spoken in one manner or another to all of us who believe Jesus/Yeshua.
I would appreciate if the family here would confess if they believe God has spoken to them. Just to clear the air.
I believe He has spoken to all who believe in on manner or another.
I believe He has spoken to me. At 76 years, I do not say we have an on-going conversation, but when it has suited Him He has spoken to me, in words, in dreams and in a vision also.\
Please, let all know that our Father has not changed, nor will He ever.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#78
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
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#78
KelbyofGod said:
Hi Dave,
I've added bold to show the part of your quote that I'll be addressing. I hope that's ok.

You said God only speaks through scripture.... but you didn't post a verse that states "God only speaks through scripture". That seems a little hypocritical, to be honest. BTW, I only recently discovered that hypocricy means "the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense."

If you are trying to say that recorded scripture is all the truth we need, then it seems counterproductive to believe or promote a statement such as "God only speaks through scripture" that itself is not written in scripture.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
If you add to scripture saying you imaginations or any other source is God speaking you are sinning. Because it says scripture thoroughly furnishes us. If faith comes by hearing the word, how can we say it comes from any other source?
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#79
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#79
KelbyofGod said:
Roger,

If "Blind" = Unbelieving and "a blind person" = an unbeliever then we could use that terminology in order to test my proposal.

#1 My first main supposition was that we all start out as "Blind"/unbelievers (people who needed to "see"/believe if we want salvation). Am I starting out correct, or do you know someone who was born a believer/"seeing" (with no need to be born again before being considered "a believer")?

Or to say it another way... #2 Do we start out as Christian, or non-Christian? Remember... not Christian = unbeliever = blind.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
How shall they hear except they be sent? Blessed are the feet of those who preach the gospel. Romans 10:14-15

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#80
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#80
notuptome said:
How shall they hear except they be sent? Blessed are the feet of those who preach the gospel. Romans 10:14-15

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
Roger,

I'm calling you out on this one.

You don't strike me as someone who is mentally challenged, so I think it reasonable to expect you to give clear explanations of your statements (considering you volunteer them) if ever I ask for clarification. You readily reply, yet your replies don't seem to answer the questions asked, or provide a foundation for your claims. To me that comes across as a lack of integrity.

I've seen you post friendly and helpful replies but I've also seen you post in a passive-aggressive style. You are invited to provide friendly and helpful replies, and to ask for clarifications, or even ask why I would say something so totally against your current beliefs...and I will do my best to answer because those types of comments are born in love. But please refrain form the passive-aggressive postings because passive-aggressive postings (even of scripture) are born in hatred and cowardice. Thanks.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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