The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

Amen but its not conditioned on belief in a PRE TRIB rapture but on Christs return and the resurrection

Hardly. I'm still waiting for an explanation of why the 70 pound hailstones, the water turning to blood, and the 42 months of the plagues of the two witnesses are missing from the historical record in 70 A.D.

People have been observing the situation for 2000 years. The only people who find a Pre trib rapture compelling are those who wont or cant consider any alternative. If it was so compelling how is it that most Christians dont believe it and the US seems to have the monopoly on those who do. Perhaps you all have a personal tweet line to God and heaven is part of the Union.

The hailstones are recorded in Josephus, as are many of the events that took place inside the walls. . Offhand I don't recall the water/blood, but the two witnesses may be interpreted in several ways that are less literal than you're probably thinking.

The problem is that you expect others to do your homework for you. Nobody is obligated to provide the explanations you demand. If you were to investigate the matter honestly, rather than with a biased and closed mind, you might learn a few things that surprise you.

I already did my homework buddy. And 70 pound hailstones in a supernatural thunderstorm I assure you did not happen In 70 A.D. Nor did any of these cataclysmic events....

https://biblehub.com/nkjv/revelation/16.htm

Because a 90 year old man poses no threat. (Can’t believe I had to write that it’s so obvious. The Romans had law. They weren’t just mean.)
No they actually had law and order working hard to maintain law and order. They weren’t thugs. People had trials. Paul appealed to Caesar and was acquitted by him and set free.

That is the personal opinion of the author according to his prechosen biases.

There are copies of Revelation from the 2nd century that say in the text John was sent to Patmos under Nero. Also, Nero was far more cruel to the christians than Domitian. Far more. What Nero did is generally known. He had John boiled in oil. Pretty cruel. He was the most cruel man who ever lived.

John couldn’t walk at 90 nor speak. It is known that he lived with Mary the mother of Jesus in Ephesus afterwards. That is hardly possible when John was a feeble old man and Mary well into 100.

There is a lot more evidence for the early date but it upsets the whole apple cart so I can see why your side has a deep interest in keepining dispensationalism. So you can cut and paste all
the dispensationist pieces you want. Doesn’t make it fact.

I don't know who wrote the Epistles of John.

1st John seems to be in the same style as the gospel.
but this could just mean it was written by someone who was a close associate of the apostle, or had heard him preach a lot and picked up his style of talking.

second and third John, there's no clue as to who wrote them apart from tradition, imo.

well, I think because John is the human agent through whom the inspiration was given.

when translating and then reading it, we use our human experience of language to attach meaning to the marks on the page.

Given your attitude, I have no desire to be your buddy. I prefer people who respect others, even when they disagree.

DorothyMae said:
Because a 90 year old man poses no threat. (Can’t believe I had to write that it’s so obvious. The Romans had law. They weren’t just mean.)
No they actually had law and order working hard to maintain law and order. They weren’t thugs. People had trials. Paul appealed to Caesar and was acquitted by him and set free.

I have no idea what the "gt" is but the planet is not destroyed same as the earth was covered with watering destroying the land creatures but not the whole earth. The wrath of God fell on the city that joyously crucified the Son of God. It all makes beautiful sense.

If one thinks about it, why would anyone fight to the tooth the theology that promises unbelievable suffering for everyone for no reason and delights in the rise of evil? I used to believe that nonsense as well and then my eyes were opened by the facts of history American Christians are ignorant of. And then I wondered why I thought Jesus was coming in a violent military take over ruthlessly taking over control of the whole planet. It was also a shock to learn that this is exactly what the Pharaisees believed. The Jews would rule the world from Jerusalem. Does that really sound like a loving God? He forces by threat of physical punishment obedience? Tyranny of the worst kind?

Show me the mark of the beast
Show me worldwide taking of the mark.
Show me the flying scorpions.
Show me the hailstones of fire.
Show me 70 ad being "tribulation such as the world NEVER WILL SEE AGAIN"

This sounds about right.

Seriously there is simply no alternative to a pre-tribulation Rapture, since the Rapture has always been imminent.

I have already pointed out that the denial and rejection of the Resurrection/Rapture and the visible return of Christ are heresies.

Without the actual Resurrection/Rapture, God's plan redemption for the Church is incomplete. Without the actual Second Coming of Christ, God's plan of redemption for the earth is incomplete. So if you do not think this is heretical, perhaps your should examine your own beliefs.

I agree the Second Coming of Jesus is a vital part of any eschatology.

But you lose me at this so-called "rapture" which is not in the Bible (I am quite willing to look at harpazo in 1 Thess 4:17, and show why it does not mean rapture). But even if it were there, one mention of something so important you are willing to call me a heretic, but is not found elsewhere in the Bible is not enough scripture to invent a doctrine.. And people being "taken" is poor application of hermeneutical principles.

So, you have an extremely "iffy" proposition called a Rapture, unsupported in the Bible, and you call me a heretic? For reading what is in the Bible, rather than believe in something that is not there, but, a lot of people think it is!

The real lie is dispensationalism. It has also captured so many people in this snare, where end times becomes all consuming, and even dispensationalist raging with one another about the interpretation of Rev., and the timing of Christ's return, complicated by a false doctrine which keeps people from keeping there eyes focused of God, rather than events!

"keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of our faith. For the joy set out for him he endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God." Hebrews 12:2

Now that's a real "end times" verse.

Finally, God wants us to be transformed into the image of Christ. There are many places this is commanded, both how to do it, and the results like the fruits of the Spirit.

"Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God—what is good and well-pleasing and perfect." Romans 12:2

Jesus does not want us navel gazing and doing nothing! He wants us to be involved with business as the excerpt from this parable says:

"And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come." Hebrews 19:13

It always amazes me the obsession with eschatology. Instead, we need to be changing and following a Christ.

"We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit" 1 Cor 3:18

So, you have an extremely "iffy" proposition called a Rapture, unsupported in the Bible, and you call me a heretic?

Really? Lets look a few scripture passages........

And when he had spoken these things while they beheld
he was taken up and a cloud received him out of their sight
And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up
behold two men stood by them in white apparel. Which also said
Ye men of Galilee why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same
Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven shall so come in like
manner as you have seen him go into heaven

Acts 1:9-11 KJV

Verily verily I say unto thee When thou wast young
thou girded thyself and walkest whither thou would
but when thou shalt be old thou shalt stretch forth
thy hands and another shall gird thee and and carry
thee whither thou wouldest not. This spake he signifying
by what death he would gloryfy God

John 21: 18-19 KJV

In Acts we have a literal statement about Christs return. I notice that the men the Disciples meet make no mention of a Pre Tribulation rapture or a secret imminent coming. In fact if you search the Gospels you will find Jesus never mentioned a specific Pre Trib rapture anywhere. This is quite amazing because he had many opportunities to do so. For example when the Disciples spoke to him in Matthew 24. One would think such an important event would be specified somewhere. As it stands it largly depends on elaborate interpretations of isolated texts and if an individual trusts those interpretations.

Did Peter believe in an imminent coming? If you were in Peters place would you after being told that you are going to get old and die? Would you expect to see a rapture in your lifetime let alone imminently ?

You would have to open to reading the description of that event by Josephus and realized that when Hebrews wrote things like “under his feathers” doesn’t mean they thought God belongs to the bird family.

You would have to open to reading the description of that event by Josephus and realized that when Hebrews wrote things like “under his feathers” doesn’t mean they thought God belongs to the bird family.