Questions about JW’s

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,362
29,608
113
These are the questions you seem to be overlooking FROM NWL and not myself. See below.

Here are the questions again:

Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4?
Was Moses "God to Pharaoh" according to Exo 7:1?
Are angels called Elohim/gods according to Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7?
Did Jesus tell some Jews "you are gods" in John 10:34?
Did Paul state there are "many gods" in 1 Cor 8:5?


"among whom [satan] the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.." (2 Corinthians 4:4)
"And the Lord [YHWH] said to Moses: Behold I have appointed thee the God of Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.."
"You have made them a little lower than the angels [Elohim/gods] and crowned them with glory and honor.." (Psalms 8:5 NIV. Compare Hebrews 2:7)
"God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods he judges.." (Psalm 82:1)
"Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”..’ (John 10:34)
Satan is not God. Is he a false god? Yes. Many false gods are identified in Scripture.

Apply the same principle to Exo 7:1, John 10:34, and 1 Cor 8:5.

Calling something or someone "god," or a god, is not saying they are God.

Which is exactly why the NWT changes the first chapter of John, inserting the A.

Do you think you are God also?
 
Jul 1, 2019
31
2
8
Satan is not God. Is he a false god? Yes. Many false gods are identified in Scripture.

Calling something or someone "god," or a god, is not saying they are God.

Which is exactly why the NWT changes the first chapter of John, inserting the A.

Apply the same principle to Exo 7:1, John 10:34, and 1 Cor 8:5.

Do you think you are God also?
No, I do not believe I am god/God. It seems you're evading the questions. The point of NWL questions (I believe) is not to highlight that the ones cited in scripture called "god/gods" is the same as calling that one the ONE GOD Almighty.

The idea of beings other than the, ONE GOD, are called are also called "god/gods" but in a different sense of the word is supported in scripture, as NWL has been arguing and the below texts demonstrate this. NWL argument is not "Satan is not God" as you strawmanned. But rather, I believe, is the statement TRUE or FALSE that Satan is "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4? You're not answering this, rather you avoid the question by giving strawman answers.

Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4? - Is this scriptural statement true or false?
Was Moses "God to Pharaoh" according to Exo 7:1? - Is this scriptural statement that Moses was God to Pharaoh true or false?
Are angels called Elohim/gods according to Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7? - Is the statement angels being called "gods" true or false?
Did Jesus tell some Jews "you are gods" in John 10:34? - Is Jesus statement that Jews are "gods" true or false?
Did Paul state there are "many gods" in 1 Cor 8:5? - Is Paul's statement that there are "many gods" true or false?

Please answer the questions directly and without giving strawman answers.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,362
29,608
113
No, I do not believe I am god/God. It seems you're evading the questions. The point of NWL questions (I believe) is not to highlight that the ones cited in scripture called "god/gods" is the same as calling that one the ONE GOD Almighty.

The idea of beings other than the, ONE GOD, are called are also called "god/gods" but in a different sense of the word is supported in scripture, as NWL has been arguing and the below texts demonstrate this. NWL argument is not "Satan is not God" as you strawmanned. But rather, I believe, is the statement TRUE or FALSE that Satan is "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4? You're not answering this, rather you avoid the question by giving strawman answers.

Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4? - Is this scriptural statement true or false?
Was Moses "God to Pharaoh" according to Exo 7:1? - Is this scriptural statement that Moses was God to Pharaoh true or false?
Are angels called Elohim/gods according to Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7? - Is the statement angels being called "gods" true or false?
Did Jesus tell some Jews "you are gods" in John 10:34? - Is Jesus statement that Jews are "gods" true or false?
Did Paul state there are "many gods" in 1 Cor 8:5? - Is Paul's statement that there are "many gods" true or false?

Please answer the questions directly and without giving strawman answers.
What strawman? God does not equal god. You should know that being that you defend it to deny the deity of Jesus Christ while deceitfully pretending you affirm it. Your false accusations are just that.
 
Jul 1, 2019
31
2
8
What strawman? God does not equal god. You should know that being that you defend it to deny the deity of Jesus Christ while pretending you affirm it. Your false accusations are just that.
And yet again you don't answer the questions. Why?
This is how you gave a strawman answer. NWL question was:


Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4?

Your answer was

Satan is not God. Is he a false god? Yes. Many false gods are identified in Scripture


The question was not, "Is Satan God" or "Is Satan a false God", the question is Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4? You gave an answer which was not asked therefore it is a strawman.

Wikipedia - "A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, meanwhile the proper idea of argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted. "

Please stop evading the questions and answer them each directly, its not an overbearing request, and for each of the questions, I'm sure a 'yes it is true' or 'no it is false' would suffice
Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4? - Is this scriptural statement true or false?
Was Moses "God to Pharaoh" according to Exo 7:1? - Is this scriptural statement that Moses was God to Pharaoh true or false?
Are angels called Elohim/gods according to Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7? - Is the idea angels being called "gods" true or false?
Did Jesus tell some Jews "you are gods" in John 10:34? - Is Jesus statement that Jews are "gods" true or false?
Did Paul state there are "many gods" in 1 Cor 8:5? - Is Paul's statement that there are "many gods" true or false?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,362
29,608
113
No, I do not believe I am god/God. It seems you're evading the questions. The point of NWL questions (I believe) is not to highlight that the ones cited in scripture called "god/gods" is the same as calling that one the ONE GOD Almighty.

The idea of beings other than the, ONE GOD, are called are also called "god/gods" but in a different sense of the word is supported in scripture, as NWL has been arguing and the below texts demonstrate this. NWL argument is not "Satan is not God" as you strawmanned. But rather, I believe, is the statement TRUE or FALSE that Satan is "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4? You're not answering this, rather you avoid the question by giving strawman answers.
What part of "Satan is a false god" do you not understand, exactly? Please be specific.

I am not denying what Scripture says.
 
Jul 1, 2019
31
2
8
What part of "Satan is a false god" do you not understand, exactly? Please be specific.
Well, where in Corinthians 4:4 does it call Satan a false god small G. Paul calls him "God of this world" is the statement true of false, you're still evading the questions and giving a strawman answer... and you know it.

Is Satan the God of this World according to 2 Corinthians 4:4? Answering Satan is a false god does not answer this question or any of the other question posed to you. Address the questions.

If you don't deny what scripture confirms then confirm if the questions and statement posed to you are true or false according to o the scriptures. You're doing everything you can now NOT to answer them.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,362
29,608
113
Well, where in Corinthians 4:4 does it call Satan a false god small G. Paul calls him "God of this world" is the statement true of false, you're still evading the questions and giving a strawman answer... and you know it.

Is Satan the God of this World according to 2 Corinthians 4:4? Answering Satan is a false god does not answer this question or any of the other question posed to you. Address the questions.

If you don't deny what scripture confirms then confirm if the questions and statement posed to you are true or false according to o the scriptures. You're doing everything you can now NOT to answer them.
You are lying and you know it. I am trying to determine your intention. Satan is the god of this world, NOT the God of this world. It appears you cannot tell a false god from the real thing. Is your Jesus a created being? I asked that question some time ago and you have not answered while continuing to demand answers from me.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,362
29,608
113
Are you refusing to answer the question? Is your Jesus a created being?

A created being cannot be God. God is eternally self-existent.

Therefore you lie and try to deceive others, pretending you
affirm the deity of Jesus Christ when you do not.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,481
695
113
Its been a few years since I’ve studied the JW defense of their peculiar translation they call Scripture. I used to have many resources that plowed their favorite tactics. One of my favorite was a transcript of the court proceedings that had their main translator put in a witness chair. His credentials as a translator were brought to light and he was challenged to translate some Greek. He failed, and that should have been the end of it, but here we are, another cult out for another dollar.

Does anyone have a link to the proceedings I refer to?
 
Jul 1, 2019
31
2
8
You are lying and you know it. I am trying to determine your intention. Satan is the god of this world, NOT the God of this world. It appears you cannot tell a false god from the real thing. Is your Jesus a created being? I asked that question some time ago and you have not answered while continuing to demand answers from me.
Finally! Asking you simple questions like trying to draw blood from a stone. Now answer the other four simple questions NWL posed to you days ago.

You're correct and I agree, Satan is god of this world in a lesser sense of the word god and not in the almighty sense of the word God. Satan is most defiantly evil and false in his being.


Was Moses "God to Pharaoh" according to Exo 7:1? - Is this scriptural statement that Moses was God to Pharaoh true or false?
Are angels called Elohim/gods according to Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7? - Is the statement, angels being called "gods" true or false?
Did Jesus tell some Jews "you are gods" in John 10:34? - Is Jesus statement that Jews are "gods" true or false?
Did Paul state there are "many gods" in 1 Cor 8:5? - Is Paul's statement that there are "many gods" true or false?

You're attempting to ask me questions when you're ignoring the ones posed to you by NWL and still continue to do so. I'll remind you that these questions are not mine, I'm simply pressing you to answer them. I have been following this thread and baffles me when people chivalrously ignore direct questions posed to them and yet continue thinking their theology is a solid one when they can't bring themselves to answer the most basic theological questions when their doctrine is scrutinized. Direct you're questions to NWL as he's the one you've been dialogue about this subject with and not me, as I said, I'm simply pressing you to answer the questions he posed to you.

Please answer his question.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,832
1,074
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
Watch for the deliberate misquote in the passage below.

1Cor 15:42-44 . . So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in
corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised
up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power. It is sown a
physical body, it is raised up a spirit body. If there is a physical body, there
is also a spirit one.

Catch the misquote? Well; there is no mention of a spirit body in that
passage. The actual word is "spiritual".

The Greek word translated "spiritual" is ambiguous. It doesn't necessarily
refer to the characteristics of thin air. Below is a list of spiritual things that
bear absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to the bodily chemistry of an
angel or a demon.

Spiritual gifts (Rom 1:11)
Spiritual law (Rom 7:14)
Spiritual things (Rom 15:27)
Spiritual people (1Cor 2:15)
Spiritual nourishment (1Cor 10:3)
Spiritual water (1Cor 10:4)
Spiritual rock (1Cor 10:4)
Spiritual counselors (Gal 6:1)
Spiritual blessings (Eph 1:3)
Spiritual music (Eph 5:19)
Spiritual understanding (Col 1:9)
Spiritual housing (1Pet 2:5)
Spiritual sacrifices (1Pet 2:5)

It's apparently been decided, and chipped in stone, by a number of
theologians that the spiritual body has to be composed of spirit because of
the passage below.

1Cor 15:50 . . This I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit
God’s kingdom,
(see post No.98)

But spirit isn't necessarily the default material when flesh and blood are
ruled out.

In my opinion if God was intelligent enough, and creative enough, to invent
all the natural atomic elements on the periodic table with which to fabricate
the current cosmos with all of its natural forms of life, matter, and energy;
then it shouldn't be all that difficult for Him to produce yet another set of
atomic elements with which to fabricate an unnatural body-- i.e. a superman
--composed of materials heretofore unknown by the likes of Albert Einstein,
J.Robert Oppenheimer, Carl Sagan, and Stephen Hawking.

There are some other things in addition to immortality that are known about
the spiritual body.

1) The spiritual body is patterned after Christ's glorified body.

Phil 3:20-21 . .Our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a savior
from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to
bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that
they will be like his glorious body.

2) The spiritual body is fully human.

Heb 2:5-8 . . For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited
earth to come,d about which we are speaking. But a certain witness has
given proof somewhere, saying: “What is man that you keep him in mind, or
the son of man that you take care of him? You made him a little lower than
angels; with glory and honor you crowned him, and appointed him over the
works of your hands. All things you subjected under his feet.” For in that he
subjected all things to him God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now,
though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him;

Heb 5:1-6 . . For every high priest taken from among men is appointed in
behalf of men over the things pertaining to God

3) The spiritual body is capable of dining upon ordinary foods and
beverages.

Matt 26:29 . . I tell you: I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now
on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom.

Luke 22:15-16 . . I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you
before I suffer. For I tell you: I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in
the kingdom of God.

Luke 22:28-29 . . However, you are the ones that have stuck with me in
my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a
covenant with me, for a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in
my kingdom,

4) The spiritual body is visible to the naked eye.

Acts 1:11 . . Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This
Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the
same way as you have watched him go into heaven.

1John 3:2 . .We shall see him just as he is.

Rev 1:7 . . Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see
him, even those who pierced him
_
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
113
These are the questions you seem to be overlooking FROM NWL and not myself. See below.

Here are the questions again:

Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4?
Was Moses "God to Pharaoh" according to Exo 7:1?
Are angels called Elohim/gods according to Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7?
Did Jesus tell some Jews "you are gods" in John 10:34?
Did Paul state there are "many gods" in 1 Cor 8:5?


"among whom [satan] the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.." (2 Corinthians 4:4)
"And the Lord [YHWH] said to Moses: Behold I have appointed thee the God of Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.."
"You have made them a little lower than the angels [Elohim/gods] and crowned them with glory and honor.." (Psalms 8:5 NIV. Compare Hebrews 2:7)
"God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods he judges.." (Psalm 82:1)
"Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”..’ (John 10:34)
Well hi there creative111. Now there is a common phrase you Jw's like to use? "the god of this system of things." Did you ever read Isaiah 14:12-14, and what God says about this so-called "system of things?"

"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! vs13, "But you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. vs14, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL MAKE MYSELF LIKE THE MOST HIGH."

The point should be obvious, Satan in his heart will "Make Himself like the most hight." He is not "THE MOST HIGH" now is he creative111? You also quoted John 10:34, "I said; "You are gods." Do you have any idea why Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6? It was not to show the Jews that He was not "a god" of the Bible. I stated this for "food for thought."

The following site explains the issue of "gods." http://bib.irr.org/was-moses-god-exodus-416-and-71

I was unaware that NWL was banned. Since this is the case then perhaps you can address my specific question of why Jesus Christ is identifed as the source and angent of creation? Especially in view of the fact that the Lord God said He crealed all things "BY HIMSELF" and "ALL ALONE?" (Isaiah 44:24) And one more thing, you have my permission to give me more "down votes?" :rolleyes:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,598
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
I was unaware that NWL was banned. Since this is the case then perhaps you can address my specific question of why Jesus Christ is identifed as the source and angent of creation? Especially in view of the fact that the Lord God said He crealed all things "BY HIMSELF" and "ALL ALONE?" (Isaiah 44:24) And one more thing, you have my permission to give me more "down votes?" :rolleyes:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
NWL is still an active member but apparently that a frequent regular contributor to the forums.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
These are the questions you seem to be overlooking FROM NWL and not myself. See below.

Here are the questions again:

Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4?
Was Moses "God to Pharaoh" according to Exo 7:1?
Are angels called Elohim/gods according to Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7?
Did Jesus tell some Jews "you are gods" in John 10:34?
Did Paul state there are "many gods" in 1 Cor 8:5?

"among whom [satan] the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.." (2 Corinthians 4:4)
"And the Lord [YHWH] said to Moses: Behold I have appointed thee the God of Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.."
"You have made them a little lower than the angels [Elohim/gods] and crowned them with glory and honor.." (Psalms 8:5 NIV. Compare Hebrews 2:7)
"God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods he judges.." (Psalm 82:1)
"Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”..’ (John 10:34)
So to watchtower doctrine,satan being God,as you point out,and Jesus being God,is one and the same "labeling"

...with the father being what?
....the most high God???

See how I get your perception?

IOW
tell us where you are going.

Watchtower doctrine of course.
Strict watchtower doctrine.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Satan is not God. Is he a false god? Yes. Many false gods are identified in Scripture.

Apply the same principle to Exo 7:1, John 10:34, and 1 Cor 8:5.

Calling something or someone "god," or a god, is not saying they are God.

Which is exactly why the NWT changes the first chapter of John, inserting the A.

Do you think you are God also?
Satan is god....to those enthroning him. So to those satanists it would be proper to put GOD in their writings.

In that light ,watchtowers Grammer is another nothingburger.

I can read satan and other gods as "God" or "god" in the context of who is enthroning or labeling.
Satan being God and supreme to his disciples.

But always "god" in context of Gods word.

Watchtower craftiness.

Pure mental pitiful craftiness.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Well, where in Corinthians 4:4 does it call Satan a false god small G. Paul calls him "God of this world" is the statement true of false, you're still evading the questions and giving a strawman answer... and you know it.

Is Satan the God of this World according to 2 Corinthians 4:4? Answering Satan is a false god does not answer this question or any of the other question posed to you. Address the questions.

If you don't deny what scripture confirms then confirm if the questions and statement posed to you are true or false according to o the scriptures. You're doing everything you can now NOT to answer them.
I know all about your grammatical hocus pocus

Pure nothingburger
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Well hi there creative111. Now there is a common phrase you Jw's like to use? "the god of this system of things." Did you ever read Isaiah 14:12-14, and what God says about this so-called "system of things?"

"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! vs13, "But you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. vs14, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL MAKE MYSELF LIKE THE MOST HIGH."

The point should be obvious, Satan in his heart will "Make Himself like the most hight." He is not "THE MOST HIGH" now is he creative111? You also quoted John 10:34, "I said; "You are gods." Do you have any idea why Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6? It was not to show the Jews that He was not "a god" of the Bible. I stated this for "food for thought."

The following site explains the issue of "gods." http://bib.irr.org/was-moses-god-exodus-416-and-71

I was unaware that NWL was banned. Since this is the case then perhaps you can address my specific question of why Jesus Christ is identifed as the source and angent of creation? Especially in view of the fact that the Lord God said He crealed all things "BY HIMSELF" and "ALL ALONE?" (Isaiah 44:24) And one more thing, you have my permission to give me more "down votes?" :rolleyes:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Down votes from the darkness.

THANK YOU JESUS !!!!!!
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
And yet again you don't answer the questions. Why?
This is how you gave a strawman answer. NWL question was:


Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4?

Your answer was

Satan is not God. Is he a false god? Yes. Many false gods are identified in Scripture


The question was not, "Is Satan God" or "Is Satan a false God", the question is Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4? You gave an answer which was not asked therefore it is a strawman.

Wikipedia - "A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, meanwhile the proper idea of argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted. "

Please stop evading the questions and answer them each directly, its not an overbearing request, and for each of the questions, I'm sure a 'yes it is true' or 'no it is false' would suffice
Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4? - Is this scriptural statement true or false?
Was Moses "God to Pharaoh" according to Exo 7:1? - Is this scriptural statement that Moses was God to Pharaoh true or false?
Are angels called Elohim/gods according to Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7? - Is the idea angels being called "gods" true or false?
Did Jesus tell some Jews "you are gods" in John 10:34? - Is Jesus statement that Jews are "gods" true or false?
Did Paul state there are "many gods" in 1 Cor 8:5? - Is Paul's statement that there are "many gods" true or false?
Satan has a kingdom and is worshipped
The kingdom of the devil is larger on this earth than the followers who correctly worship Jesus and enthroned Jesus a God. (In case you did not know the kingdom of God has enthroned the Son and the Father exalted the Son above EVERY NAME)

....tedious having to qualify to watchtower the 2 kingdoms.