THE NEED TO BE BAPTIZED BY WATER & THE SPIRIT

Luke 7:29
All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus’ words, acknowledged that God’s way was right, because they had been baptized by John.

Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God’s purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)


Doesn't look like a powerless symbol.

As Our Savior He did so we could die and rise with Him.

Jesus is drawing an analogy for Nicodemus.

Physical birth and Spiritual birth

You need to read it without adding in your lens of Baptism.

You are not Jesus. Jesus needed no baptism. You are seeing baptism from an English translation perspective not from the original Greek perspective. There are many baptisms but only one that produces eternal life.

There is no baptism that men can perform to remit sin or redeem a soul. The baptism that saves is wholly of God and not of human hands.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Luke 7:29
All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus’ words, acknowledged that God’s way was right, because they had been baptized by John.

Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God’s purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)

Doesn't look like a powerless symbol.

One baptism in respect to two working together as one "work of faith".

One lord, the greater of the two (father) greater in position but not purpose. God is one. Ceremonial laws are used when a person desires to become a member of the priesthood of believers .They are a a shadow of a work shadows do not work, they demonstrate the unseen work.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


if we offer that kind of non faith towards God rather than His faith the at works in us . we are in danger of those who cricify christ ow over and over to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough.


No such thing as sign self edifying sign gifts .Jesus calls them dead works . the living foundation is laid once. Faith towards us

Hebrews 6 King James Version (KJV)Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, (not from) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Jesus said to do it. Peter said to do it for the remission of sins and receive the Holy Spirit.

It's how Jesus shares His death and resurrection with us.

One can be baptized and rebel against God, God can save without it, but one can't presume they can be saved without it.

It was necessary for Jesus to be baptized under the old order. Its what the dispute was about. John 3:25 The propmised time came when men and woman prophets from all nation came under their High Priest, Christ .You could think to oneself of the new birth. But not a sign of it. The new birth Holy Spirit baptism proceeds a desire to go out into the world .The ceremony can get a person temporally wet as a sign of a hope they have of being sent out two by two?

Psalm 110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Typical incoherent bafflegab.

PLEASE take a class in basic English. You're wasting your time trying to discuss theological issues when you can't even write a coherent paragraph.

Well as far as I have both from experience and from others is that the baptism of the spirit is what first saves us, I mean when I was baptized in water it didn't do anything for me but when I was baptized in the spirit that is when I was filled with life. as far as water baptism goes I wouldn't go so far to say we don't need it but I also do think it differs from the baptism of the spirit

Baptism does not cause you to accept the message but signifies that you have accepted the message.

Only the blood of Christ saves us. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ. The English translations of scripture says to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but in the original, it says to be continually filled, or, being filled, be filled. Jesus said He had to return to the Father so that the Holy Spirit would be sent. We saw that fulfilled in Acts on the day of Pentecost.

The Holy Spirit empowers us to follow Christ and through Him, God gives spiritual gifts as He wills.



As mailmandan above states, water baptism does not save and does not cause a person to accept the gospel, but it signifies that we have accepted the gospel and are saved and we desire to be 'buried' with Christ.

That may be so. Not many would accept I think. Have you explained earlier?

Yeah I did. Thank you stonesoffire.

You must read it with a lens. The lens of context in the dialog, cultural context (what would that mean to them in that day), lexical syntactical context and analysis, (what do the words mean in their original language and sentence structure), authorial intent, All of these are a Lens. Rules of interpretation are a lens. But what we have to avoid are unnatural lenses that are forced or that someone has to tell us, because we would never come up with that lens using common reading comprehension skills.

It is not very logical to use the LENS of natural birth since that does not occur to people naturally and they have to be told by someone to look at it that way, and then they use the LENS of amniotic fluid, but that does not occur to anyone naturally especially if they were living in the first century and had never witnessed a natural child birth or knew about the gross details. Therefore it is indeed a LENS based on what you have been taught or read someone say that this is what it means. It is not likely that the disciples would have thought about the a baby in the amniotic fluid being what Jesus was talking about unless you can find any references to it in 1st Century culture or literature.

Since they were heavily involved in baptisms on a daily basis, it WOULD naturally occur to them that he was talking about the spiritual significance of Baptism. Not that the water itself saves us but the act of faith and repentance that it represents.

I propose that thinking that he was talking about a baby being born of amniotic fluid / water, is indeed a forced LENS of interpretation that would not occur to someone on a desert island with just a bible and no religious influence. That person would be thinking Baptism based on the whole context of the Gospel of John and all the baptism activity that was being emphasized. They would have to be told NOT to think that way.

But I could be wrong.

The baptism of Jesus in water has no benefit in the matter of salvation

The baptism of Jesus in water has no benefit in the matter of salvation

By saying ONE baptism in Ephesians 4:5, Paul did not mean that there is only one baptism that exists, such as water baptism but not Spirit baptism or Spirit baptism but not water baptism and this one baptism (Spirit baptism) places us into the body of Christ.

Exactly, shadows used in ceremonies can get a person wet and introduce the new kingdom of priest as carnal ordinances .