By Works

Back to my first question
After the cross

You don't need to Cary the cross to be worthy before Jesus?

Mat 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

Mat 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

Do you still think we have nothing to do with the outcome?

Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

What you say can limit God, just as what you believe can do the same.

I will remind every body, in my opinion, when Paul say salvation by faith not by work, is in the context to tell Jews that animal sacrifice not save you, not in the context encourage us to rob the bank or do criminal any way what ever you do as long as you accept Jesus you save, only lose your reward not go to hell

Bible teach about there is correlation between faith and work. When you have faith in Jesus, Jesus in you will translate your faith to loving work

See what Jesus teach in matt 25

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

People that categories as inherit the kingdom or honor to heaven is people that do loving work, not that work save you but save bear loving work, that is fruit of the Spirit.

Some people say that judgment is for non Christian only, but I don't believe that.

Bible say Jesus is the only way to heaven not good work, so people on the right must believer or we believe non believer as long as doing good go to heaven.

Well, at least it's on the very strait and narrow path.
On a more serious note, that is were you are wrong.
Is it God's good pleasure for so many people to be sent to hell? For we know so very few actually make it to heaven.
We have some part to play in matters of life.
We need to send forth God's word or promises, and it is His word that does the work, even as it was His word itself that formed the worlds.
When we speak forth God's word, it shall not come back to us void, but accomplish that which we please, and prosper in the things whereto we sent it.
For both death and life is in the power of our tongues.

Talk is cheap without scripture to back it up, and the testimony of two witnesses is true.
So please show me two separate scripture verses proving your theory.

I say what is written, which is, we are saved by the grace of God through faith, and not by works of the law.
What I am arguing against is "what faith is, and how it works, and the difference between a work of faith and a work of the law, otherwise known as a good work.
I ask again, how is confessing Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior a good work, when all you are doing is to try and save yourself from eternal damnation?
It's not moral, it's not a good work, and neither is it good for any others.
It is however a good things for one's self, but it is at the same time, a selfish thing as well, but as I already stated, it is only good for the person doing the confessing.
So how does that fall under a "good work"?

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye [bear fruit], except ye abide in me.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

All our abilities are given to us by the kind or type of spirits in us.
A prophet would not be able to prophesy without the spirit of God giving him or her the ability to do so, even as an evil spirit gives psychics or fortune tellers their ability to look into people's lives.

but Keeping the Law Liberates. in any way, and at any time we come more into Alignment with God's Laws or even Just Remain in any Good Way that we have Already Learned to Do, Or even just do Anything good and Right Naturally from Birth -- in those Ways that we Keep the Laws -- We are Liberated -- we are Free.

Romans 8
20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of [f]corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.


are we laboring to become?


16The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.


if we do not suffer (overcome sin, pick up our cross, learn to Keep the Laws) we will not be Glorified with Him.


From Suffering to Glory
18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.


after we suffer, after we become -- it is revealed -- day by day, hour by hour.

God doing what He pleases doesn't contradict free will. God is pleased to enact justice against the wicked, though he finds no pleasure in the death of the wicked themselves.

But our God is in the heavens;
He does whatever He pleases. (Ps. 115:3)

Whatever the Lord pleases, He does,
In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps. (Ps 135:6)

It is God's desire that all come to Him willingly, but that doesn't mean we restrict His ability to perform miracles in any way.


As for the eternal nature of salvation, that requires a more in depth study than simply pulling out verses and I'm not really in the mood to present an in-depth study that will almost certainly simply be ignored because of your strange doctrine.

Just 2 verses of what faith IS, though there are many more.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Luk 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

Faith IS the very thing you have or do not have in your heart.
And Jesus tells you HOW it works, in the same verse.
I got healed by REJECTING OR NOT HAVING something that made me very sick, years back.
It works the same way for getting thing, such as healing.
You can reject or believe you do not have a sickness and/or disease and at the same time, believe you have received your healing, after you asked for it.
Rejecting is the same as NOT HAVING something.
But if you don't really believe you don't have a sickness and that you do have your healing WHEN YOU SPOKE OR PRAYED, WHILE STILL FEELING YUK, OR BEFORE YOU SEE ANY CHANGE IN YOUR HEALTH OR THAT OF ANOTHER, then you didn't have the faith in the first place.
By the way, hoping, wishing, and wondering what God's will is or what He will do, is NOT, I repeat emphatically, NOT FAITH.

And a few verses on HOW faith works, though there are many many more.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth... , and shalt believe in thine heart... , thou shalt be...
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto..., and with the mouth confession is made unto...

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto... ; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire,, believe ye have received when ye pray, and then ye shall have.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without a corresponding work is dead also.

I have deleted and altered some of the verses for clarity sake, without changing the meaning.
Many people think faith is the same as believing, or it is having confidence assurance of something, but it is NOT.
Faith is the very thing you envision from within.
For example, faith is the very though and image of- "If I believe and confess Jesus as my personal savior, I will be saved".
That very though and image IS faith.
But until you act on that thought and mental image, it will lie dormant, even as James says, "Thou believest [only] that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe [only], and tremble.

And how does faith work?
It should be known that there is only one kind of God like faith, so it has to work the same way in EVERY situation.
So what is the difference between the faith of casting out a spirit and one receiving Christ as their Lord and Savior?
Doesn't it require same kind or type of faith for both?
Now show me in the bible where someone cast out a spirit from a person, by believing ONLY, without speaking one word verbally.
God will not and does not cast out spirits without you first commanding the thing to leave, in the name of Jesus.
God will NOT remove the thing, by you simply believing it to go or be gone, without you first saying or commanding the thing to go with words spoken in faith.
The commanding word spoken in faith, based on the authority of God's promise of- "Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. ", IS THE VERY WORK JAMES 2 is talking about.
It is not the same work Paul is talking about.
That simple work or act of speaking VERVALLY to a spirit, commanding it to leave in the name of Jesus, IS THE WORK or ACT OF FAITH, that will cause God's hand to move in the situation, through the words you spoke.
First you believed the promise of God, then you acted on said promise, AND THEN GOD PERFORMED THE VERY THING YOU COMMANDED TO BE DONE, because He watches over and hastens to perform His SPOKEN word.
That is what James was getting at, and that is why I say no one can be saved by simply believing without first acting on the gospel of salvation.
The works Paul was speaking of in Ephesians has to do with good or moral works (plural), that don't require God's hand to move.
If we can do something without God's help, then how is that a work done with the God kind of faith.
It is not.
It is faith, but it is the lowest form of faith, because it is faith based in the knowledge of the natural, or knowing how things work.
Giving money you know you already have, is faith in the natural.
Again, the lowest for of faith, for it is based on knowledge of REALITY, and human reasonings.
But giving what you don't have, if you did believe that, based on a promise of God, then that would be a God kind of faith.
Speaking what one believes, is NOT a work of the law, but a work of faith, and it is NECESSARY for God to work in the very situation you apply your faith to.
Hopefully, that should give you a little better understanding of what I was talking about.
Let me know, if you would please, if you still don't see it or understand.

So God did not need Moses to lead His people out of bondage, nor did He need Joshua to clear the land of all the ites, and so on?
God's will is done, but in every case, He uses man to do it through.

Most of the time in the scriptures when save, saved, salvation is used it is referring to a child of God being delivered from something as he sojourns here on earth, and is not referencing eternal deliverance.

If Moses wouldn't do it, God could have found another person or manner to get it done. We are honored with service to God's will but He isn't dependent on men in any fashion. Not for glory, not for purpose.

Jesus first coming was for Israel, they were given the Law since Exodus. But they kept refusing to follow their covenant they made with God to follow the Law.

God deliberately made it easy for us former Gentiles to be saved, because the Jews kept rejecting God, in order to provoke the Jews to jealousy.

Paul explained it well in Romans 11

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

The Jews rejected God the Father in the OT by ignoring or stoning their prophets.
The Jews rejected God the Son in the 4 Gospels by putting him on the cross.
The Jews rejected God the Holy Spirit in Acts by stoning Stephen who was full of the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:55).

With the entire Trinity being rejected by the Jews, the last one to me is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, which is an unforgivable sin under the Law of Moses, God finally unveiled his hidden plan to save the Gentiles independent of the Jews, a plan he had kept hidden since the world began (Ephesians 3:9).

Once you realized this, Ephesians 2 and 3 take on totally new meaning, and you as a former Gentile, will really praise God the Father for his wonderful plan. And you will not be upset that Jesus was only speaking to the Jews in the 4 Gospels.

So you believe we don't need to carry the cross since that command is only for Jews?

If 4 gospel is only for Jews, why Jesus say whosoever in john 3:16

Whosoever is not only for jews

Under the OT prophetic timetable, national Israel are to repent and believe in their promised Messiah first.

Then when Jesus become their King and sit on David's throne in Jerusalem, then all the Jews will become the light bringing salvation to the entire Gentile world.

That is how the timing was supposed to work, and that is how the whole world, the whosoever in John 3:16, was to be saved under the OT prophetic timetable.

There are many OT prophets that talk about this timetable. The clearest being Zechariah 8

3 Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.

7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;

8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

My people here is a term describing the Jews. But when you read on,

20 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:

21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts: I will go also.

22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.

23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

When Jesus sit on David throne in Jerusalem? When all the Jews become light?
And you believe before all Jews become light, no gentile save?

So you believe the command to carry the cross is only for Jews?

Repenting, believing and confessing can deliver a child of God from many things as he sojourns here on earth, but they are not responsible for his eternal deliverance.