Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

Could not agree with you more. Many of the old writers were guilty of going to far. Restricted man's will to much or completely abolished it. Man, as a created being, is not a puppet on God's string.

Man possesses a will but man's will is not "free". His/Her will will determine many things about his/her daily life. Our will can lead us into sin, God leads no man into sin. God tempts no man. Man's will is subservient to God's will, if it were not, then God is not God. He has lost control of His creation. God forbid!

But because of man's fallen state (depravity), he can do nothing, in regards to spiritual things, unless God acts FIRST in the act of regeneration. Being Born from above. Therefore, man's will is not free to choose Christ. Oh, he can choose something he calls christ but it is not the Jesus Christ of Holy Writ.

Truthfully, man's will is not free even in earthly matters. Let me give a couple of examples: 1) You cannot have any car wish to have; you can only have what you can afford. 2) When you wake up, you cannot put on anything that you might choose to wear because you are limited to that which you have. 3) You cannot eat anything you would like to eat at home because you are limited to what you have on hand.

1ofthem,

[I don't know if they really can't see how dangerous it is or not. But to preach people may or may not have a chance to be saved is totally destructive in my opinion. It casts doubt, confusion, and stumbling block to the lost.]

I see and understand your concern, but the issue is more how you are presenting the issue.
Pastors who preach the doctrines of grace Preach the person and work of Jesus and they stick to the scriptural message and language.
They usually point out man's condition as dead in Adam, and sinners under the wrath of God.
Then they follow by pointing out that Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness, and that He has come to save sinners.
That is hardly a stumbling block.
It is not confusing at all. If they are outside of Christ they should have doubts about where they are headed.
The only safe place is under the blood of Jesus.

Everyone who has come to Christ has been guided by God, no question about that, however one must still make a conscious decision whether or not to believe.

The thing of it is; that the natural man, before he has been given a new spiritual life, has no spiritual conscience to believe in spiritual things.

Oh bye the bye, I have put a Greek word study up on the thread "Eternal security -- the most dangerous words ever spoken" about John's use of the word: WORLD, if any are interested. Looking into John 3:16 and the use of this word.

I don't understand how a person can read the bible and come to the conclusion that all people are good and they can all be saved.

"EleventhHour,

[So you give a false message of hope of they are not the chosen of God?]

Hello 11H,

Good question, let's look at it a bit closer.

We are to be faithful to the message itself and the souls we preach, teach, and speak to.

Election is certainly a biblical truth. God has chosen who He is going to save.That is a biblical truth, however;

He has not revealed to us a list of names, but you can see for yourself in Acts how God himself explained this to Paul;

9 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

10 For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.

God reveals to Paul...He has many, or much people in this city.
He does not say who they are, he does not say how many, but clearly does not say all.

God uses means, the preaching and teaching of the word. The Spirit quickens the word to those he has purposed to save.

No false hope, all men are commanded to repent and believe the gospel.
We tell them both about salvation in Christ, and second death for those who remain in rebellion.

Which person states this?

You know what I do not understand how anyone can look at "God with us in Christ" and promote a God who withhold's grace to people based on some unknown criteria?

Really how does it feel to live everyday thinking God chose you above others?

Which person states this?

You know what I do not understand how anyone can look at "God with us in Christ" and promote a God who withhold's grace to people based on some unknown criteria?

Really how does it feel to live everyday thinking God chose you above others?

You know, you have a lot to say but have little evidence to prove any of your points or criticisms. I just want to ask then,

Did the Gospel come unto you only? It must have, since you see no point in quoting any Scripture. But I say only in regards to my post, like the Apostle Paul,

(Gal 1:10) For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? or am I striving to please men? if I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ.

I would hope like myself.... Very, very, very humbled. For I know not why God would choose a wretch like me. Sorry Grandpa, didn't mean to speak out of turn.

You are humbled by the fact that Frank Jones down the street is denied grace?

I would like to give another great example to your point in the effectual call of Lydia. This is how it happens for every believer.

(Acts 16:13) And on the sabbath day we went forth without the gate by a river side, where we supposed there was a place of prayer; and we sat down, and spake unto the women that were come together.
(Acts 16:14) And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple of the city of Thyatira, one that worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened to give heed unto the things which were spoken by Paul.
(Acts 16:15) And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

1) A certain woman, not all women who were listening.
2) Whose heart was opened by the Lord... not by herself or the will of herself.
3) Heard the message. Because having been born again (John 3:5-8), and given a fleshy heart (Eze. 36:26), she now possessed hearing ears.
4) She gave heed to what was said.
5) Was baptized.

These points are crystal clear in these verses. The distinction that is being made, is between the General call of the Gospel and the effectual call of the Gospel. This is also what is being taught in the parable about the seed. (Mark 4:3-9). Preaching goes out to ALL in a "general call" but it will only be "effectual" in the hearts of the ones the Lord has opened.

Let us look at Ezekiel's message again. Who is doing these things and who are receiving them.

(Eze 36:26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
(Eze 36:27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Again, these things are so clear, any babe in Christ can see them.

1) The Lord gives a new heart,
2) The Lord is going to replace our useless, dead spirit, with a new one,
3) The Lord takes away the stony heart, (stony heart is symbolic of an unregenerate heart, which is still suffering from depravity)
4) The Lord gives the heart of flesh, (Regenerate heart)
5) The Lord His Spirit in us,
6) His Spirit will cause us to walk in His statutes. Not in the legalistic way of the Old Testament nation of Israel but in their precepts.

If you are really interested in what the Bible teaches, then don't kick against these obvious meanings. Thank you Iconoclast for your words. Keep up the good fight of faith.

I am not replying to this nonsense any further. You obviously know not the Lord. You spew out bitterness and guile. Are boastful and full of arrogance. Approach in the proper spirit and we will talk. May good Lord, if He so chooses give unto you grace. Until then, take care and keep safe.

Everyone who has come to Christ has been guided by God, no question about that, however one must still make a conscious decision whether or not to believe.

I disagree my friend. Natural man has an intuitive drive to acknowledge spiritual realms, but obviously many refuse to acknowledge God’s Truth in Jesus Christ.

Which person states this?

You know what I do not understand how anyone can look at "God with us in Christ" and promote a God who withhold's grace to people based on some unknown criteria?

Really how does it feel to live everyday thinking God chose you above others?

I am not replying to this nonsense any further. You obviously know not the Lord. You spew out bitterness and guile. Are boastful and full of arrogance. Approach in the proper spirit and we will talk. May good Lord, if He so chooses give unto you grace. Until then, take care and keep safe.

It makes me feel very blessed and grateful.