Not By Works

Come to me,(A) all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.(B)
Matthew 11:28

The FIRST Christian Church in Jerusalem
I have a video you all need to see. They claim it is the FIRST Christian Church beneath the Streets of Jerusalem that was Pastor by JAMES the brother of Jesus, and this Symbol was found there so what symbolizes Messianic Judaism today had it's original in that CHURCH. That symbol was on an ancient clay vessel, found by a Monk in the 1960's in that cave.

-

Here is the Video:

I was searching for my first Post on this thread, and I think it was #35,071 on page 1754, dated 5 Sep, 2017. Not sure tho. He ever I quoted Josephus the Jewish Historian, and it was a DYNAMITE QUOTE. I responded to Post dc had made, and here is the Quote from Flavius Josephus:



Very good point, dc. Not sure how anyone can refute it.

I found something interesting today, brother. I hope you do not mind if I Share it here. It proves that at some point in his work, JOSEPHUS became a CHRISTIAN:

Here is that useful quote from the Jewish Historian Josephus, about our LORD, Jesus Christ. Yes. there are four other men with the name Jesus that Josephus talks about in his writings, but this quote is clearly about the Messiah, our Lord, and it clarifies that Josephus, before He wrote this, had become a Christian.

QUOTE:
THE COMPLETE WORKS OF FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS
THE ANTIQUITIES OF THE JEWS
BOOK 18
CHAPTER 3
SECTION 3
3. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.


The Works of Flavius Josephus.

Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
END QUOTE.


Now, I do not even remember that post, because of my 5th Stroke lost part of my memory. BUT I AM GLAD I FOUND IT.

I’ll try to respond to this soon.

I’ll start with the claims by AT. Robertson and as time permits to the rest.

He does not understand Eis perfectly. Part of that is shown by his confusion with Eis and en since both means into but with different nuances. They are different words in Greek. It’s also shown by his confusion on Eis and Gar. They can both be translated as for, but Eis is a forward action meaning doing something for something or into something meaning a change. Gar means for as in because of. Eis never means because of.

In act 2:38, the tense does not change anything with the meaning of the sentence. In Koiné and in English it reads.
“ repent and be baptized into Christ for ( into therefore obtaining ) the forgiveness of sins.

It never reads, repent, and be baptized, beachside of your forgiveness of sin.

With acts 3:19 Eis is following the same principles. The word Eis is be used once more as into , creating a change. It was not saying because of.

It’s reading ,

Matthew 12:41
New American Standard Bible


41 The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

They word it in English in a funny way. They (repented at the preaching). Eis here is being translated as at. Like always it means into bringing about a change.

In the same way the Jews at Pentecost they believed and were baptized into the forgiveness of sins the Assyrians Jonah preached to are repenting ( turning away) into ( entering ) repentance. They were not repenting. Then they entered into repentance by leaning into the preaching.

It’s not complicated to understand. Neither does it henge on one verse.

It does hinge on verse....do have other verses?

I’ve posted several up above already

YOU DO KNOW THAT VERSE ACTS 2:38 is not talking about Christian Water Baptism, don't you ? ? ?

Here is the Baptism that places us IN CHRIST PERMANENTLY.

Romans 6:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Or are you unaware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in a new way of life.
5 For if we have been joined with Him in the likeness of His death, we will certainly also be in the likeness of His resurrection.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.


He is NOT talking about CHRISTIAN WATER BAPTISM, that does not save.

HE is talking about SPIRITUAL BAPTISM, where the Holy Spirit IMMERSES US into the Spiritual Body of CHRIST, PERMANENTLY, that DOES SAVE US SPIRITUALLY


Now Maybe you can understand WHY HE WHO INSPIRED THESE WORDS, CHOSE THESE WORDS SPECIFICALLY IN THIS VERSE.


1 Peter 3:20 (NKJV)
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

It’s without a doubt about water baptism. There is not a single thing to think it’s about anything different. Same as in when Jesus was baptized in water and then the Holy Spirit landed on him. It’s the same as when the eunuch was baptized in water in acts 8, when the Samaritans were baptized in acts 8, when the first gentiles were baptized in acts 10 and it’s what happened to paul once he reached the disciple in acts 16.

It’s also what 1 Peter 3:18-21 says what it says.


1 Peter 3:18-21
New American Standard Bible


18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, thejust for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

In baptism, it’s not the water that is saving us but it’s the appeal we are making while we are being baptized. This verse really showcases my argument. It is water baptism, but it’s not the water that is the savior but the blood of Jesus.

We get baptized because it’s the new circumcision under the new covenant.


Colossians 2:11-12
New American Standard Bible


11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Same as what romans 6 says.

so in acts 2 when Peter responded to their what shall we do and he said “ repent and be baptized “ it’s definitely about water baptism.

Doubt concerning salvation for me has often come in the form of questions. Much of these question could come in the form of what if...?

There has been quite a few Scriptures that have been a comfort to me. One verse I like in particular is John 6:37: "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." Jesus says this with his words but he also speaks it clearly in his actions. Time after time again he heals the sick, casts out demons, teaches the people. He goes the extra mile, comforts the broken, raises the dead. He went to the cross, paid the price of sin, said it is finished died and rose again the third day.

I encourage anyone reading that anytime doubt or fear come, listen to the voice of the Savior. Jesus voice will not question the truth of God's word. And even if you are afraid or don't feel you have all the answers you want, trust in the Lord Jesus because He is faithful. Leave your eternity in the hands of Jesus because He is the Savior and He is more than able to save those who believe in Him.

As long as jokers and religionists conflate what took place in wilderness with eternal salvation they will continue to miss the mark!

No it is not, but you can believe that if you want. But I KNOW THE TRUTH.

But like Peter said there were only 8 people saved by water, and they were on the ARK.


IT IS SPIRITUAL IMMERSION (BAPTIZED) INTO THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST THAT SAVES.

My Born Again experience, was after I had attempted suicide three times in a week, the last week of 1977. Wave after wave of GUILT for my WHOLE LIFESTYLE washed over me, and was uncontrollably weeping and bawling like a baby. The Holy Spirit gave a prayer that I should pray and mean it 100%. I PRAYED, "LORD PLEASE FORGIVE ME, PLEASE FORGIVE ME! If you have a purpose for my life, then YOU will have to come into it, and run my life; because I AM MAKING A COMPLETE MESS OF IT!"

THAT WAS A COMPLETE WILLING SURRENDER TO HIM, AND HIS MIND CAME INTO TO ME, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IMMERSED ME INTO HIM, Birthing my HUMAN SPIRIT into ETERNAL LIFE. IT WAS VERY REAL, AND NO WATER. Then something else happened that night, but I am reluctant to talk about it to anyone that may not be a genuine Believer. I will tell you HE had control of almost everything I did for the next almost 20 years of my life. I moved from Nebraska to California, because HE WANTED ME TO, and thought I hated California. I had no idea WHY. HE PUT IT ON MY HEART to GET INVOLVED WITH PRISON MINISTRY in my spare time, and had No BIBLE COLLEGE, but I had listened to 500 or more Teaching Tape at least 4 Times each, MOST WERE DR. JOHN MACARTHUR TAPES. I became a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain at two different Supermax Prisons. IT WAS NOT ME, IT WAS CHRIST IN ME DOING IT ALL. Nine years at one Prison, and after that we moved and 6 years at another.

So did I KNOW HE was controlling me during those YEARS? ABSOLUTELY! I understood that was the normal part of being BORN AGAIN. From that First Night after my third attempt at suicide, I KNEW and TOTALLY TRUSTED HIM 100 percent, I guess that was my Spiritual Gift, of totally TRUSTING HIM. I could not wait to see what HE would do next. I remember one morning a few months later, I was using a Hammer, and hit my thumb HARD. All that came out of my mouth was "DOG GONE IT!" I was AMAZED as I USED TO CUSS A BLUE STRIKE when something like that Happened. HE WAS CHANGING ME FROM THE INSIDE OUT. Next he created a HUNGER and THIRST for GOOD BIBLE TEACHING, and I STILL HAVE IT. He was MOLDING ME from the inside out, to be the Kind of CHRISTIAN HE WANTED ME TO BE.

I used to be a LUTHERAN from infancy on until I was BORN AGAIN, and I wanted to believe that my water baptism as an infant, was what SAVED ME. The difference between then and NOW is literally, NIGHT AND DAY. I found their 10 or 15 minutes sermons was a STARVATION DIET OF THE WORD! Now the Conservative evangelical type of non-denominational Church I attend, teaches 1 hour Sermons or MORE, and I LOVE IT.

That Born Again Experience IS VERY, VERY REAL. I Wish I could MAKE everyone to BELIEVE How REAL IT REALLY IS!

For me I just can’t take someone’s personal experience and hold it above God’s word. Gods word on doctrine trumps personal feelings and experiences. Baptism is a clearly taught event that is foreshadowed repeatedly throughout the Torah and bleeds into the New Testament synchronizing the spiritual with the physical.


1 Corinthians 10:1-5
New American Standard Bible


Avoid Israel’s Mistakes
10 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our father were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.

When the Jews in the wilderness was eating manna and drinking the water from the stone it gets linked to spiritual food and water. When they went through the waters , as if buried by them but coming out of it , they were baptized into Moses.

We see that same thing spelled out again in Romans 6:1-6.


Romans 6:1-6
New American Standard Bible


Believers Are Dead to Sin, Alive to God
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

The imagery is once again being submerged by water.

We step into the water just like Jesus was placed on the cross. We are submerged into the water just like Jesus was buried in the ground. We resurface out of the water in new life just like Christ resurrected from the dead. Being baptized in water is when we are baptized by the spirit. There is one baptism.


Ephesians 4:5
New American Standard Bible

5one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

In the Old Testament the act of circumcision was not only physical but was also a spiritual thing making them Jews. It was a physical actions that carried spiritual implications. Baptism is the same.


Colossians 2:11-12
New American Standard Bible


11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

When we are baptized in water, we receive the circumcision of Christ and this baptism, though physical is an action of faith , an appeal of our conscience , that results in a spiritual thing.

We know that this baptism is the same was water baptism because of what Peter wrote.


1 Peter 3:18-21
New American Standard Bible


18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Here it says when the flood happened 8 were saved from the water by the ark. By god. It says baptism corresponds to that. Now this is how we know it’s the water baptism. They say that it’s not the removal of dirt from the body, ( a bath ) but Christ. They did not want people confusing water for magical water ( like some
Catholics do with holy water ) but know that in that baptism it’s Christ who is the ark and not the water. They would not have said that if water was not part of the baptism.

I agree that those who truly seek God will find him.

Perhaps you could deal with this... since it is clearly not a reference to baptism.

Jesus makes it clear one physical birth and one spiritual birth that brings eternal life.

5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

That has nothing to do with a physical birth. It’s a common confusion. Being born of water and spirit is the same one baptism. Being born of water is not the flesh. It’s not a parallel or flesh and water and spirit and spirit.


Being born of water and spirit is what happens in baptism. There is no verse in the Bible saying baptism is just a weird symbolic practice.

I literally showed the connections and in the previous post.

The scripture states very clearly ....

born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Physical birth... born of flesh

Instead of denial how about actually dealing with the words.

I did deal with them. There are two easy answers that are consistent with everything I’ve stated.

It’s a given all man are born physically. So
There would be no real point in saying we must be born physically and then born spiritually.

Being born of water and spirit is baptism. It’s not being of water and then of spirit. It’s joined together. Everyman is born physically. Then those who are saved will be born of water and spirit.

Secondly let’s say water here is physical. It’s not a issue at all because I previously showed how actions can carry a spiritual result.

Being baptized is being born of spirit. Just like what the other verses say earlier about manna being physical and spiritual.

For future reference. I’m not going to be responding anymore. I don’t do chase the rabbit style comments. When I have time I’ll make a entire post about why baptism is essential and why praying Jesus into your heart is false.