Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
There are some on here also responding who are not holding to calvinistic thinking . I'm not on my own in seeing this .
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Almost everyone responding does not hold to Calvinistic doctrine. That's what you're missing.
 
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John146

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OIC1965 said:
So what? It refers to the passage in Romans 8:28-30. Which states that those who God Forekew, He also predestinated, and those who He predestinated, He called, and then justified and glorified. The order is clear. But you have JUSTIFICATION BEFORE PREDESTINATION.
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Before God predestines a man for the future adoption, He must first have knowledge of that man as a son. That’s foreknowledge...so, when does God know a man as a son? Please use scripture.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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EleventhHour said:
Thank you ... I think you grasped the reason for my question.

Convince and conviction are two words with different meanings.

I read conviction not convince.
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We are convicted. Then be must become convince in our mind the gospel is true otherwise we will never trust
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
I'm literally responding to what people believe. Is it a coincidence that what people believe lines up with calvinistic thinking ?
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Eternal and I do not hold to a Calvinistic perspective on Election, we do not hold a Calvinistic perspective on Predestination, we do not hold a Calvinistic perspective on Atonement (Limited vs Unlimited)., We do not hold to irresistable grace. We do hold to the position of Security of the believer, which you deny apparently. I hold a modified view, (not Calvinistic) of Depravity, I think Eternal said he doesn't believe in Total Depravity in the sense that you're regenerated before faith, and I don't either. So what Calvinistic doctrines do we hold.
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
Your not a Calvinst correct ? Arminain?
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Are you an Arminian?

You hold possibility of losing salvation. Extreme Arminianism.

You hold that Christ died for all. So do we. So do Arminians. Does that make us Arminians? NO.

You hold that grace can be resisted. So do we. So do Arminians. Are we all Arminians? NO!

You hold to a form of conditional election. That is Arminian thought.

By my count, YOU are a four point Arminian. The only point you don't hold is the one on Depravity. Do you deny the affects of the Fall on Adam's descendants?
 
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OIC1965

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OIC1965

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#968
John146 said:
Before God predestines a man for the future adoption, He must first have knowledge of that man as a son. That’s foreknowledge...so, when does God know a man as a son? Please use scripture.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
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At conversion. BUT KNOWING AND FOREKNOWING ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Foreknowing is knowing before. Before what?
 
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OIC1965

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#969
John146 said:
Before God predestines a man for the future adoption, He must first have knowledge of that man as a son. That’s foreknowledge...so, when does God know a man as a son? Please use scripture.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
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Questions ...who are the remnant? What did they attain?
 
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OIC1965

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OIC1965 said:
At conversion. BUT KNOWING AND FOREKNOWING ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Foreknowing is knowing before. Before what?
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You say adoption is ENTIRELY future, right? So why do we call God our Father if we haven't been adopted yet?
 
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OIC1965

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#971
John146 said:
Before God predestines a man for the future adoption, He must first have knowledge of that man as a son. That’s foreknowledge...so, when does God know a man as a son? Please use scripture.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
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YOU say adoption is future.

MY BIBLE says we are already children of God. (1 John 3:2)

I wonder who I should believe.

You say God doesn't foreknow us before we are saved.

My Bible says God God chose and foreknew us before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4-5 I wonder who I should believe.
 
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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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OIC1965 said:
Are you an Arminian?

You hold possibility of losing salvation. Extreme Arminianism.

You hold that Christ died for all. So do we. So do Arminians. Does that make us Arminians? NO.

You hold that grace can be resisted. So do we. So do Arminians. Are we all Arminians? NO!

You hold to a form of conditional election. That is Arminian thought.

By my count, YOU are a four point Arminian. The only point you don't hold is the one on Depravity. Do you deny the affects of the Fall on Adam's descendants?
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1) I definitely do not hold to unconditional election.
Again!!! Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

2)Where have you picked up the idea that i hold to loss of salvation? A believer cannot. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Predestined to be conformed/ inheritance/ Adoption . After we believe.
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
1) I definitely do not hold to unconditional election.
Again!!! Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

2)Where have you picked up the idea that i hold to loss of salvation? A believer cannot. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Predestined to be conformed/ inheritance/ Adoption . After we believe.
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Regardless of your definition of election, you said ONE IS NOT ELECT UNTIL THEY BELIEVE. That is putting the condition of faith on election. CONDITIONAL ELECTION.
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
YOU say adoption is future.

MY BIBLE says we are already children of God. (1 John 3:2)

I wonder who I should believe.

You say God doesn't foreknow us before we are saved.

My Bible says God God chose and foreknew us before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4-5 I wonder who I should believe.
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Again .
Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

5. Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
Again .
Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

5. Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)
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So God adopts people later that are already His Sons? I think there is a principle of adoption that you are missing.
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
Eternal and I do not hold to a Calvinistic perspective on Election, we do not hold a Calvinistic perspective on Predestination, we do not hold a Calvinistic perspective on Atonement (Limited vs Unlimited)., We do not hold to irresistable grace. We do hold to the position of Security of the believer, which you deny apparently. I hold a modified view, (not Calvinistic) of Depravity, I think Eternal said he doesn't believe in Total Depravity in the sense that you're regenerated before faith, and I don't either. So what Calvinistic doctrines do we hold.
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You have ' election ' connected to ' being saved ' .
You have predestination connected to being converted .
You have ' Previeniant grace .
Otherwise you don't need the gnostic idea of ' election ' and ' predestination'
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
So God adopts people later that are already His Sons? I think there is a principle of adoption that you are missing.
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I think your confused by western ' adoption ' . let's go slowly.
Rom 8 .23 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the FIRSTFRUITS OF the SPIRIT , even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting !!! .... for .... the ......adoption !!!!! ....... , to ..... wit, the ....... redemption ....... of ......our ....... body.
God does not contact an adoption agency and then they send him pictures of us for him to browse and pick us .
 
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OIC1965

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#979
throughfaith said:
You have ' election ' connected to ' being saved ' .
You have predestination connected to being converted .
You have ' Previeniant grace .
Otherwise you don't need the gnostic idea of ' election ' and ' predestination'
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So Paul was a gnostic? He is the one who used election and predestination.

And you don't believe in preceding grace? So it's "God loved us because we first loved" instead of the other way around?
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
I think your confused by western ' adoption ' . let's go slowly.
Rom 8 .23 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the FIRSTFRUITS OF the SPIRIT , even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting !!! .... for .... the ......adoption !!!!! ....... , to ..... wit, the ....... redemption ....... of ......our ....... body.
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There is an "already, not yet" aspect to our adoption. Just like there is with our sanctification. We are already fully sanctified POSITIONALLY, but we are not yet in full experience. We are already adopted, but we are not experiencing the full experiential blessing of the adoption yet, for we are waiting for the resurrection when our body will be delivered from corruption. Out glorification . which includes the redemption of our body, is the revealing of us as the Sons of God.
 
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