Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

Sorta,but the 5 foolish are saved but not keeping extra oil.

Quote
""I have never understood why God would take away the mature Christians only to raise up baby Christians...doesn’t it make more sense that He uses the mature Christians? Why would God take us away when we mature Christians will be called upon to trust Him in tribulation?""

Mat 25 is the gathering of the bride.
(The ones worthy are taken.)

Jesus said "...but pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the entire world..."

Jesus said "because you have kept the word of my testimony I will keep you from the hour of testing...."

(All 3 are "worthy" dynamics.)

Loads of them. Repeatedly. If you don't read them it's your own fault.

How many more times do I have to post from 2 Thessalonians 1?
I've even posted it in your preferred KJV. You keep denying the the teaching of scripture.

It is spelled out for us EXACTLY WHEN the resurrection/"rapture" occurs. EXACTLY. One return.


2 Thess 1 (CSB)

5 It is clear evidence of God’s righteous judgment that you will be counted worthy of God’s kingdom, for which you also are suffering,

6 since it is just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you

7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us. This will take place at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels,

8 when he takes vengeance with flaming fire on those who don’t know God and on those who don’t obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

9 They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction from the Lord’s presence and from his glorious strength

10 on that day when he comes to be glorified by his saints and to be marveled at by all those who have believed, because our testimony among you was believed.

Um..no.
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What do you think you proved?

That is a false teaching. Why would God take His saints off the earth when we will be the ones that

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I have never understood why God would take away the mature Christians only to raise up baby Christians...doesn’t it make more sense that He uses the mature Christians? Why would God take us away when we mature Christians will be called upon to trust Him in tribulation?

The ones who are left after some of us fall away from the faith you mean?

I have been preaching for over 35 years and specifically called unto End Time Prophecy. I will never call anyone a false teacher unless I think they are really doing it with foreknowledge. We see darkly now. But we also have the holy spirit, when we are given something, we are supposed to KNOW, that we KNOW, that we KNOW, and I know on this brother. I am not just guessing.

The REASON (I am giving you the answer here) is because the MISSION of the Church is finished. Read Matt.24:14, when the Gospel has been taken unto the ends of the world, THEN the End (70th week) will come. We have no mission left. Why was Noah not TAKEN? Because Jesus was yet to be born. Why was Lot not TAKEN? Because Jesus was yet to be born. Why will the Church be TAKEN? Our mission on earth is complete, its judgment time. Read Rev. 14, the Angel PREACHERS THE GOSPEL to the world, and the Two-witnesses are testifying about God and about both his mercies and judgments. We are not needed per se. Now as to WHY there are Christians during the 70th week. Because God is merciful, QUESTION if you miss the Rapture, will you not give your heart to Jesus? Do you think that should still be an option? Because I do, and God is merciful, so that is why we have Christians during the 70th week. But they are not preaching the gospel, they will be running for their lives brother, most will be killed for not taking the Mark of the Beast, read Revelation 20:4.

I don't usually read Mark, I read Matthew, but that Mark 13:9-10 verse looks like it parallels with the Matt. 24:9:10 verses where Jesus told the Disciples that they would all be killed. You do understand Jesus was telling the Disciples (save John) that they would all be killed right? Matt. 24:4-6 is about 70 AD. Matt. 24:7-14 is about the Church Age, not the 70th week, end times verses 14 sats THEN the end will come. Verses 15-31 are all about the 70th week. Thus we get THREE MENTIONS of False Prophets for a reason. In verse 5 it's about the false messiahs the Pharisees/Jewish leaders would put forth as Political Leaders (they thought the Messiah would be a political leader, not the Sin of God) to try and defeat the Fourth Beast (Rome) fulfilling John 5:43. Verse 11 is about the Church Age false teachers, preachers etc. especially those who would kill the Disciples for blasphemy against their false gods. And Matt. 24:24 is specifically about THE False Prophet and THE Anti-Christ.

God TAKES the Christian Bride to Heaven to marry the Lamb, we are his bride, we completed our mission on this earth. The NEW Christians know they left it too late, now they will have to pay with their lives because they tarried. They will be doing two things, DYING or HIDING, they will not be preaching. Our MISSION is complete brother.


I think the whole "falling away" misses what is going to happen, I think it's already happening and people do not understand what it is, Europe FELL AWAY a long time ago, now we are doing it in the USA. It's about the culture when it gets to the point that good is called evil, and evil is called good like is happening now in the USA, the Church has failed, we have given over too much ground unto the enemy without a fight. This means the Church is accepting in many cases the evils of the world, going along to get along, some even participating, marrying homosexuals, advocating for abortion, etc. etc. It is like the Jewish High Priests who accepted Antiochus into the temple of God, where he profaned it by sacrificing a pig to Zeus, and his very name claimed he was god manifest.

So, I see the culture and the Church as getting away from the mission of Jesus and thus the Anti-Christ spirit starts taking over, readying the culture for the rise of the Anti-Christ, who is alive now, this is known by me, I saw that vision in 1986. As per 2:Thess. 2, that is about the Church DEPARTING before the DOTL comes and the AC also arises before the DOTL, thus there was no need for the Thessalonians to fear that they were in the DOTL God's Wrath. The same words used in different places don't have to mean the same thing, you have to look at the CONTEXT. In 2 Thes. 2 we see in the 1st verse it's speaking about the GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO Jesus. In Tim. 4:1 it's speaking about the Church and culture giving in to WORLDLY WAYS.

God Bless

I have been preaching for over 35 years and specifically called unto End Time Prophecy. I will never call anyone a false teacher

The REASON (I am giving you the answer here) is because the MISSION of the Church is finished. Read Matt.24:14, when the Gospel has been taken unto the ends of the world, THEN the End (70th week) will come. We have no mission left. Why was Noah not TAKEN? Because Jesus was yet to be born. Why was Lot not TAKEN? Because Jesus was yet to be born. Why will the Church be TAKEN? Our mission on earth is complete, its judgment time. Read Rev. 14, the Angel PREACHERS THE GOSPEL to the world, and the Two-witnesses are testifying about God and about both his mercies and judgments. We are not needed per se. Now as to WHY there are Christians during the 70th week. Because God is merciful, QUESTION if you miss the Rapture, will you not give your heart to Jesus? Do you think that should still be an option? Because I do, and God is merciful, so that is why we have Christians during the 70th week. But they are not preaching the gospel, they will be running for their lives brother, most will be killed for not taking the Mark of the Beast, read Revelation 20:4.

I don't usually read Mark, I read Matthew, but that Mark 13:9-10 verse looks like it parallels with the Matt. 24:9:10 verses where Jesus told the Disciples that they would all be killed. You do understand Jesus was telling the Disciples (save John) that they would all be killed right? Matt. 24:4-6 is about 70 AD. Matt. 24:7-14 is about the Church Age, not the 70th week, end times verses 14 sats THEN the end will come. Verses 15-31 are all about the 70th week. Thus we get THREE MENTIONS of False Prophets for a reason. In verse 5 it's about the false messiahs the Pharisees/Jewish leaders would put forth as Political Leaders (they thought the Messiah would be a political leader, not the Sin of God) to try and defeat the Fourth Beast (Rome) fulfilling John 5:43. Verse 11 is about the Church Age false teachers, preachers etc. especially those who would kill the Disciples for blasphemy against their false gods. And Matt. 24:24 is specifically about THE False Prophet and THE Anti-Christ.

God TAKES the Christian Bride to Heaven to marry the Lamb, we are his bride, we completed our mission on this earth. The NEW Christians know they left it too late, now they will have to pay with their lives because they tarried. They will be doing two things, DYING or HIDING, they will not be preaching. Our MISSION is complete brother.

I think the whole "falling away" misses what is going to happen, I think it's already happening and people do not understand what it is, Europe FELL AWAY a long time ago, now we are doing it in the USA. It's about the culture when it gets to the point that good is called evil, and evil is called good like is happening now in the USA, the Church has failed, we have given over too much ground unto the enemy without a fight. This means the Church is accepting in many cases the evils of the world, going along to get along, some even participating, marrying homosexuals, advocating for abortion, etc. etc. It is like the Jewish High Priests who accepted Antiochus into the temple of God, where he profaned it by sacrificing a pig to Zeus, and his very name claimed he was god manifest.

So, I see the culture and the Church as getting away from the mission of Jesus and thus the Anti-Christ spirit starts taking over, readying the culture for the rise of the Anti-Christ, who is alive now, this is known by me, I saw that vision in 1986. As per 2:Thess. 2, that is about the Church DEPARTING before the DOTL comes and the AC also arises before the DOTL, thus there was no need for the Thessalonians to fear that they were in the DOTL God's Wrath. The same words used in different places don't have to mean the same thing, you have to look at the CONTEXT. In 2 Thes. 2 we see in the 1st verse it's speaking about the GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO Jesus. In Tim. 4:1 it's speaking about the Church and culture giving in to WORLDLY WAYS.

The same words used in different places don't have to mean the same thing, you have to look at the CONTEXT.

Your reply to THIS POST makes no sense, if you were replying to another post but used this one, that only leads to confusion. So I will GUESS at what you are trying to say, which doesn't match up with the post you replied to.

The Rapture is not a RISING into the clouds, WE DIE, go read 1 Cor. 15, you guys do not understand it tbh. Where it says we are CHANGED, that means WE DIE, and then our spirit men are incorruptible, just like those who are raised INCORRUPTIBLE (without flesh bodies) from the grave. If you read it very keenly, it says that Flesh and Blood CAN NOT enter Heaven !! ess told Mary in John 20, "Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended unto the Father" [to offer the Sacrifice]. Mary, merely touching Jesus would have defiled the Sacrifice, that is how Holy God is. No sin flesh is entering heaven, we are CHANGED in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye we die, and out Spirit Men (which has no stain of sin flesh) will go to be with the Lord, where we get our Glorious bodies.

The Judean Wedding is 7 days, we stay in the Father's mansion for 7 years. The Bride knows not the day nor hour when the father of the groom will send him to get the bride, but when he is sent he blows a Shofar (Last Trump) to awaken the guests. In Rev. 4:1 it states Jesus' voice is as a Trump. The facts are the facts. You not being able to see the facts do not change the facts, sir.

And the Scriptures tell us Jesus lands in Jerusalem, so do you have a beef with the Scriptures? And, OH YEA, Rev. 19 tells us the Bride RETURNS with Jesus on White Horses (which simply means as Conquerors, a white horse stands for a conqueror). The red horse for 42 months of War, the black horse for 42 months of famine, the pale green horse for 42 months of death/sickness. The 5th Seal stands for 42 months of Martyrs. ALL stand for the Actions of the Anti-Christ over the coming 42 months. The 6th Seal tells of God's coming 42 months of Wrath. The timelines parallel, because the Anti-Christ uses this chaos to go forth conquering himself.

I have been preaching for over 35 years and specifically called unto End Time Prophecy. I will never call anyone a false teacher unless I think they are really doing it with foreknowledge. We see darkly now. But we also have the holy spirit, when we are given something, we are supposed to KNOW, that we KNOW, that we KNOW, and I know on this brother. I am not just guessing.

The REASON (I am giving you the answer here) is because the MISSION of the Church is finished. Read Matt.24:14, when the Gospel has been taken unto the ends of the world, THEN the End (70th week) will come. We have no mission left. Why was Noah not TAKEN? Because Jesus was yet to be born. Why was Lot not TAKEN? Because Jesus was yet to be born. Why will the Church be TAKEN? Our mission on earth is complete, its judgment time. Read Rev. 14, the Angel PREACHERS THE GOSPEL to the world, and the Two-witnesses are testifying about God and about both his mercies and judgments. We are not needed per se. Now as to WHY there are Christians during the 70th week. Because God is merciful, QUESTION if you miss the Rapture, will you not give your heart to Jesus? Do you think that should still be an option? Because I do, and God is merciful, so that is why we have Christians during the 70th week. But they are not preaching the gospel, they will be running for their lives brother, most will be killed for not taking the Mark of the Beast, read Revelation 20:4.

I don't usually read Mark, I read Matthew, but that Mark 13:9-10 verse looks like it parallels with the Matt. 24:9:10 verses where Jesus told the Disciples that they would all be killed. You do understand Jesus was telling the Disciples (save John) that they would all be killed right? Matt. 24:4-6 is about 70 AD. Matt. 24:7-14 is about the Church Age, not the 70th week, end times verses 14 sats THEN the end will come. Verses 15-31 are all about the 70th week. Thus we get THREE MENTIONS of False Prophets for a reason. In verse 5 it's about the false messiahs the Pharisees/Jewish leaders would put forth as Political Leaders (they thought the Messiah would be a political leader, not the Sin of God) to try and defeat the Fourth Beast (Rome) fulfilling John 5:43. Verse 11 is about the Church Age false teachers, preachers etc. especially those who would kill the Disciples for blasphemy against their false gods. And Matt. 24:24 is specifically about THE False Prophet and THE Anti-Christ.

God TAKES the Christian Bride to Heaven to marry the Lamb, we are his bride, we completed our mission on this earth. The NEW Christians know they left it too late, now they will have to pay with their lives because they tarried. They will be doing two things, DYING or HIDING, they will not be preaching. Our MISSION is complete brother.


I think the whole "falling away" misses what is going to happen, I think it's already happening and people do not understand what it is, Europe FELL AWAY a long time ago, now we are doing it in the USA. It's about the culture when it gets to the point that good is called evil, and evil is called good like is happening now in the USA, the Church has failed, we have given over too much ground unto the enemy without a fight. This means the Church is accepting in many cases the evils of the world, going along to get along, some even participating, marrying homosexuals, advocating for abortion, etc. etc. It is like the Jewish High Priests who accepted Antiochus into the temple of God, where he profaned it by sacrificing a pig to Zeus, and his very name claimed he was god manifest.

So, I see the culture and the Church as getting away from the mission of Jesus and thus the Anti-Christ spirit starts taking over, readying the culture for the rise of the Anti-Christ, who is alive now, this is known by me, I saw that vision in 1986. As per 2:Thess. 2, that is about the Church DEPARTING before the DOTL comes and the AC also arises before the DOTL, thus there was no need for the Thessalonians to fear that they were in the DOTL God's Wrath. The same words used in different places don't have to mean the same thing, you have to look at the CONTEXT. In 2 Thes. 2 we see in the 1st verse it's speaking about the GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO Jesus. In Tim. 4:1 it's speaking about the Church and culture giving in to WORLDLY WAYS.

God Bless

Where does the Bible says that the spirit man dwells in heaven? I have not seen that. I have however noticed that man sleeps in the dust of the ground over and over again. And that the dead will be resurrected before the living when Jesus comes in the rapture. He’s just getting the bodies of people then?

Which also makes me wonder why John when he was in heaven with God didn’t see people’s spirits..in fact no one was in heaven with him until after the rapture when he saw a multitude.

Soul sleep isn't a biblical doctrine.
Biblically, a person “sleeping” in relation to death doesn't indicate literal sleep. Sleeping is a way of describing death because a dead body appears to be asleep, lying down. Your body is just an outer husk. When it dies your spirit still lives with Jesus.
See Philipians 1: 21-23, 2 Corinthians 5:6, 8 Eph 3:14-16

Do you realise he has put HIS Spirit in you? You have a new Spirit which doesn't die just because your body does. Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children.

John didn't see all things in heaven. He saw what he was shown and he saw visions. He did see a vision of 24 elders.
He saw the martyrs Rev 6:9 right under the alter. These are souls of people who were slain for their witness. There may be millions
if you count them for the last 2000 years.

Soul sleep isn't a biblical doctrine.
Biblically, a person “sleeping” in relation to death doesn't indicate literal sleep. Sleeping is a way of describing death because a dead body appears to be asleep, lying down. Your body is just an outer husk. When it dies your spirit still lives with Jesus.
See Philipians 1: 21-23, 2 Corinthians 5:6, 8 Eph 3:14-16

Do you realise he has put HIS Spirit in you? You have a new Spirit which doesn't die just because your body does. Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children.

John didn't see all things in heaven. He saw what he was shown and he saw visions. He did see a vision of 24 elders.
He saw the martyrs Rev 6:9 right under the alter. These are souls of people who were slain for their witness. There may be millions
if you count them for the last 2000 years.

Sure I’ve heard that...but to me it does make sense that we are all actually sleeping in the dust of the earth and the dead in Christ rise first. If its just bodies..is that the dead in Christ actual rising if their souls are already in heaven?

Is that supposed to explain Romans 8:16? I don’t think what you said has anything to do with the verse you quoted honestly.

He did see a vision but when he got there there wasn’t much going on near the throne...but later after the rapture..there was a multitude...I think that is significant.

I thought that the martyrs under the alter were just from the tribulation. It seemed to me to be the case since they were talking about them in the end times in the book of Revelation.


All the rest of the dead in Christ are raptured before those who are alive..so I feel that there is a division of the slain.

Did you read all the verses I cited? Philipians 1: 21-23, 2 Corinthians 5:6, 8 Eph 3:14-16 ?


The martyrs are from the whole history of the church. (Rev 6:9) They are a different group from the great multitude in white robes.
(Rev 7:9) The Book of Acts records believers being killed for Jesus right from the beginning. History records many more over the centuries.

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

There is no time specification on this group of martyrs.
They are told to wait until the rest come in -from the Great Tribulation.

These aren’t the same martyrs who were slain because of their testimony and because of the word of God?