"Love" Prophecies Within the Church - Have You Found Them to Be Victorious - or Victimization?

Thank you very much for taking the time to share your story.

I especially wanted to highlight this part -- thanks very much for including it.

I have heard stories of Christian couples who were in solid relationships with someone else before they met the one they believed "God had for them." I specifically remember one story in which the wife said that when she met the guy she eventually married, he was dating someone else, and that "God told him to break up with the other girl."

I have always wondered to what extent this applies. Does God persistently break up already-established couples in order to pair one or the other or both with someone else?

Again, I appreciate you sharing your story, and I'm very happy that it has worked out well for you.

I think what befuddles me the most is that there seems to be absolutely no consistency as to how believers meet, decide, and receive confirmation to marry someone. I have a family member who, like you and your future wife, were "prophesied" over and told that they would be missionaries all over the world. They had been together several years, and it seemed very likely they would marry.

Ironically, this part of their "prophecy" was actually a big wedge between the two of them. One did indeed have a heart for worldwide ministry, while the other had only known family-centered, small-town church life, and didn't want to stray very far from home. If they would have married, one would have "fulfilled" the "prophecy", while the other would have been downright miserable, even though it was all in glory to the Lord.

They split up, eventually married other people, and seeing the outcome, I have no doubt that they were much better in doing so than if they had stayed together and somehow fulfilled that "prophecy."


And if so, does that include married couples as well? Will God tell someone to leave their spouse in order to go and "marry the 'right' person He has for them"? Like you, I tend to think not, because when someone has made the commitment, God expects him or her to honor it, even if it is to the supposed "wrong person."

So it seems to me to be a curious thing... that apparently, according to some people, God has no problem breaking up unmarried couples to be with other people, but would never do this with an already-married couple (at least, I'm assuming -- I don't personally know for sure.)

What are other people's thoughts about this?

presidente:

A lot of good stuff in that post number 18.

Don't be a stranger now. Come by and make observations in this forum more often. It's not just for single people these days... We have a lot of married people here, and we value their advice.

My youth pastor married the pastors daughter without any dating. It was all ordained by God. They moved to Russia, had two kids, and divorced.

I cannot think of anyone I know, in person, that has a story like this. I have read a few accounts online, probably, along these lines.

My thoughts on this, after meditating on the scripture, coupled with living so much of my life in a country that has a more collectivist culture where parents have a lot more say (veto power at least) in who their children marry is that the US and much of the west has a messed-up dating/courtship culture when compared to scripture. When Dinah fornicated with (or was possibly raped by Shechem), Hamor didn't just have a marriage ceremony performed and show up at Jacob's tent and say, 'These two are married now." Even though they were pagan Canaanites, they still knew for them to be married, her father had to give them in marriage. That is the underlying assumption in marriage passages in the Torah, also, and the New Testament also mentions giving in marriage. Jesus mentioned it, and father's giving virgin's in marriage might be what is addressed toward the end of I Corinthians 7. Until her father gave her in marriage, my wife was just a girlfriend, just a friend I was interested in.

When people date, they may make promises, raise expectations, possibly even hurt feelings. These are the concerns with dating. The Bible says to love thy neighbor, and that needs to carry over into courtship practices. But other than that, a dating relationship is basically nothing. It does not have the status of marriage. In some cases, it is a label a couple of fornicators place on their relationship.

So I wouldn't rule out the possibility of God directing someone to break up with a boyfriend or girlfriend. If there were an realistic expectation to stay together for life, then the couple would marry, not just date.

I think of it this way. Paul says, 'If you marry, you have not sinned, and if the virgin marries, she has not sinned....' So as long as there isn't something else in the scenario that is sinful, it is not wrong to marry.

The issues for me were(written from my male perspective):
- Is she married to someone else?
------ Is she divorced (see Matthew 19.)
- Is she a believer?
- Will her father give her to me in marriage?

If all those check out, I cannot say it is a sin to marry. Now if the Lord directed me not to, or if I did not rightly honor the Lord in the decision, I might sin or make a foolish decision.

There are also other issues I considered like her virginity, overall character, common values, looks, personality, mental stability, and how we feel about each other.

Proverbs 3 says to trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your path. If a Christian follows that route but does not get a vision, dream prophecy or hear any internal direction from the Spirit, but relies on God and trusts God for wisdom and chooses a wife, I don't see a problem with that.

But divorce is rampant and some people have unhappy marriages. I didn't want to end up divorced, so I wanted some 'extras' and prayed a lot about who to marry and wanted some specific direction.

I cannot really comment on what the right decision was. There are prophecies that are directive, and if someone doesn't do it and it doesn't come to pass-- it was a command anyway. And some people just say whatever pops into their head, thinking it is a prophecy.

I'm from a Pentecostal background, and my belief is that prophecy has to line up with the Bible. The Bible teaches against divorce.

There might be some particular cases where it makes sense. Let's say a man married his deceased father's wife, and he got a prophecy against it after he'd done it. Considering I Corinthians 5, that might make sense. Or if two people got so-called 'gay married' to each other, and someone prophesied against that, I don't think we should outright reject such a prophecy.

But if we are talking about a man and woman who did things the right way, marrying someone they were allowed to marry according to scripture, then I do not think we should think in terms of 'You made a mistake. You did not marry the one God had for you. You have to get a divorce and find your soulmate.' There was this guy on YouTube promoting that idea named Doug. He had this idea that Jesus had to tell you who to marry.

A boy-friend girl-friend relationship is basically nothing. Nothing except feelings, maybe promises, possibly a relationship in which two people fornicate. But it isn't marriage.

I suspect there are a lot of people who broke up relationships to honor God. I broke it off with a girl I'd been dating a few weeks because a few hints she dropped indicated to me that I could do anything physically I wanted with her with no resistance on her part. I was in my early 20's, and I did not need the temptation. I also found out she wasn't a virgin. I wanted to marry a virgin, and she didn't 'tick all the boxes' (sorry for putting it that way) on a few other variables. I wasn't ready to marry anyway, so why continue dating? I had gotten to know her a bit and a little about her, and while I liked her as a person and wished her the best, she wasn't for me, so I decided to break it off.

I would imagine there are a lot of people who have broken off a dating relationship because they did not believe it was God's will for them. And there are a lot of Christian mothers and fathers out there praying for their sons and daughters to see that their boyfriend or girlfriend is not a good match.

I hope my wife and I have instilled the idea of the need for parental approval for marriage into our kids. We have a policy of no dating until you are old enough to get married. The teens are learning from home mostly these days. One just started college and his is mostly online. None of them have dated. They did spend just a little time in Asia, and the parental approval thing is strongly a part of their mother's country.

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Thanks. I did not know if it was allowed or not. I can see the benefit of getting married people's perspective for those who want to marry, especially for questions related to getting through the dating process to being married.

My mom went to a Bible college for one year. It was affiliated with a large church. One of the couples there had just met, and both sensed the Lord saying they should marry, so they married quickly, and they seemed to have a good marriage and family from what I heard.

If they divorced, that doesn't mean they were wrong to marry. If we followed the same line of reasoning, we could say that Adam should not have married Eve. She ate the forbidden fruit after all, and offered it to Adam. One could argue that Saul should not have been made king because he would not hear God later. One could blame Samuel. One could argue that David should not have been king since he sinned with Bathsheba. One could say Bathsheba should not have married Uriah since she ended up having Solomon with David. (There is no reason to think that that was ordained by God. If Bathsheba was Jewish and Uriah as a literal Hittite, there might have been some disobedience in marriage him. But if she were literally a Sheban, maybe not.)

Some people in the west think that if you don't have certain feelings or don't date a certain way, that you aren't really married. I saw a clip on YouTube about a man who got a so-called 'mail order bride' and mistreated her. The commentator called it a 'sham marriage.' He was Aussie. But I wondered if that meant he thought they weren't really married? It sounded to me more like the case of a man treating his own wife terribly, and not like the case of a couple who weren't 'really married' because they didn't date or 'fall in love' first.

Our dating customs aren't that old. I read that the 'boyfriend' was invented around 1900 and promoted by magazines. Before that, multiple suitors might have visited a woman's house from time to time and sit and talk with the young woman. In some parts of the US, the father might light a candle. When the candle burned down, the suitor might have to go. Eventually, a suitor might propose and the girl considered it with her parents and the father would have to approve. If we consider Jane Austen novels (I have just seen the movies), singles would gather at the home of the parents of one of the eligible singles, get to know one another while chaperoned, until one of the young men proposed, then she asked her father. The idea of young couples choosing their own partners had become a part of the culture, but the father's permission was still needed.

Right or wrong, it most likely was in Gods plan to give them a life lesson, but only He knows... I sure don’t.

I know it can be a very gray area. Likewise, I've wanted to post many threads that would apply to both marrieds and singles, but usually post here because single seems to be my default social status.

And I know we all must be careful to guard our hearts in any situation.

But I treasure compassionate advice from married people who don't talk down to singles and don't make it sound as if they are in a superior position, but recognize that we all have different callings and are all in different stages of life, so please, Presidente, feel free to share with us whenever you see a topic you can relate to.

We also need to hear from married people in order to keep us realistic about what marriage really entails. One of the best threads I have ever seen in the Singles Forum was by a married lady who told us on a February 14th what Valentine's Day was really like, and that it was just a typical day in family life. Those of us with starry-eyed visions of grand romance need to hear these these things in order to stay grounded.

Unfortunately, we have had a few married people who have come here to "preach" at singles and tell them we either 1. need to do everything we can in order to get married as soon as possible, or 2. treat us as of we are lesser heathen beings who never think about God and constantly need to be reminded of how we should be more God-centered and righteous (as they apparently see themselves.)

My immediate knee-jerk reaction to this attitude has become, "Ok. I get what you're saying. Now tell me how you stay 100% focused on Christ as you close the door to your bedroom at night and spend private, completely exposed and naked time with your spouse. Because what you're telling me is that you are apparently 100% able to think about nothing but Jesus and your spouse 100% of that time, and not what you saw on your screen five minutes before, or the young secretary in the tight sweaters who works at your office?"

I'm not saying that it isn't possible to remain focused on Jesus in these situations, of course.

But what I am saying is that if a married person automatically assumes I am less spiritual than they are because I'm single, I am going to ask them how they stay spiritual during their OWN times of uttermost distractions.

As long as there is that mutual understanding, I am more than happy to see awesome married friends post here. (Not that my opinion matters all that much, but I just thought I'd toss that out there.)

My thoughts are we ALL fall short (including pastors and leaders of Christianity) and need Gods grace EVERY day. Pride comes before the fall, humility is the wisdom of God.

Thank you. Before the Reformation, in Protestant Europe, married people were probably seen as the spiritual second class citizens, at least by some of the priests and monks. Celibacy was held in high regard in the church. Paul actually encouraged celibacy over marriage. In Protestantism, the pendulum has swung too far the other way. I say that although I am married. And being wilfully celibate for life is more noble, perhaps, than just not having met a spouse yet. I think we have an inefficient courtship culture and that is the root of the problem.

I cannot see your gender on my screen. I am a guy who never really fantasized about Valentine's day for my wife. We met around Valentine's day, our first conversation at least, so sometimes I take my wife out the day after. My wife grew up in another country and they did not do much for Christmas or birthday presents. So if I don't get her a present for her birthday, Christmas, an anniversary, or Valentine's day, she's cool with that. That's a really big plus for me. Once we were on the way to a home fellowship meeting and we realized it was our anniversary. In grad school I was poor and could not afford gifts. But if could we sometimes tried to go out for dinner for anniversaries and birthdays.

Is someone preaching that you can never think about anything but Christ... while having sex, etc. Btw, if you are looking to get married, getting an agreement on your spouse always sleeping naked every single night may be something you can get said individual to agree to up front. My wife wants to wear pajamas in the wintertime.

I think being married and having a legitimate outlet for both sex and the emotional side of thingsdoes reduce the pressure of temptation somewhat. Even so, avoiding looking with lust involves choosing not to to, to yield one's members to God and not to sin. But it does make it easier, IMO, and so does not being in one's teens or 20s or even 30s.

I don't think. "He/She is single, so he/she must be thinking unholy thoughts all the time."

I have occasionally heard my wife comment on a difficult single person that she thinks there is a reason that person never married. There might be cases where the Lord works on someone's character issues to spare their future spouse some difficulty.

But there are also those people who meet and think why hasn't he/she ever married. He/she would make a great husband/wife.

The pressure to marry is actually pretty low in the western world compared to some other places I have lived in the past.

Thanks.

I dont really call those prophecies thats actually just God giving people wisdom. This stuff He does everyday if you ask Him!
The thing with Saul is he actually didnt really have a proper or close relationship with God Himself and so had to ask someone else.

Isaac finding Rebecca I dont really regard as prophecy, it was eliziar being led to find a wife for Isaac, and he didnt do it by a picture of Rebecca, what she LOOKED like but interestingly it was by her actions...she was the one who watered the camels.

Samuel was a prophet, and they were going to inquire of a prophet where lost donkeys were. How could Samuel know without supernatural revelation. Look at what he said. He didn't say, "Have you tried the nearest source of water? Donkeys get thirsty." He had revelation about where the donkeys were and much, much more.

David regularly inquired of the LORD. He may have been using either Urrim or Thummin. I forget which one.

Elijah's message was a 'Thus saith the LORD' message from God.

II Kings 1:16
16 And he said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Forasmuch as thou hast sent messengers to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron, is it not because there is no God in Israel to enquire of his word? therefore thou shalt not come down off that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die.

I'll post again cos the ipad mucked up my reply

Prophets can ask God for wisdom and they get it what are you going on about.

its just people that dont havea relationship with God think they have to ask someone else lol
we believers can all prophesy and ask God for wisdom.

Dont ask someone who doesnt know, just ask God yourself! He'll give you a revelation if you ask Him.

You might need to spend a bit more time praying and fasting, but thats no excuse for being lazy and relying on someone else to tell you what God wants for you.

Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings...

Sure, God can tell individuals things about themselves. But I Corinthians 12 compares gifted members to different members of the body. One member of the body ministers to another. God can use other believers to minister to you in different ways. We aren't all independent. We are interdependent.

One does have to check the fruit.

Yes, some people are in the office of a prophet but we can all hear from God for others. I sometimes get God dropping words of encouragement for someone in my heart and when I tell that person they're like "how did you know I needed that word or scripture etc today?"