Not By Works

O.k., I will try to referee here. I want a clean fight and no hitting below the belt from either side. I will try to be neutral like Switzerland, but will eventually state my side.

So, since I don't really know what's going on, are you a Calvin? Why do you hold your view, of once saved always saved. Scriptures?

It looks like you got everyone ready to pounce, but honestly just want to hear your side.

Agreed.

It is a means of conviction to all and condemnation to the unbelieving rejecter of Jesus' Atonement.

Then you would have to believe that natural man is dead in trespasses and sins, not only sick, but dead in them, thus totally unable before regeneration to respond to God's calling and do of His good pleasure. So, God first quickens the dead sinful man and then he believe, then he respond, then he obey. Not before regeneration. And regeneration is a work that God alone does and the sinner is a mere unworthy and passive recipient. Just as somebody is raised from the dead, the work is totally at the hand of the one who have power to raise him from the dead. This is thus a work wholly of God's will, not the will of the sinner.

Verse 1: Total depravity and unability for natural man to obey God.
Verse 2: Total depravity.
Verse 3: Natural man's nature: children of wrath.
Verses 4-5: Showing conversion of sinner is solely the work of God.
Verse 6: Equaling regeneration to resurrection, a work solely of God.
Verse 7-9: Showing salvation is solely a work of God.
Verse 10: Showing good works is the result of regeneration, as only in Christ Jesus can one do good works.

None of the above scripture does imply any "free will choice" of the sinner or that the sinner may initiate from his own will a relationship with God. None.

If you gainsay this then it's not me you argue with, it's the Word of God.

Yes, His Spirit convicts men of their sin and gives them the opportunity to come to the Cross. Without Him, we can do nothing. Not even breath.

I like that.

Not I. There are no scriptures for Calvinism or OSAS. All have the opportunity to come to Jesus, and The Word says we must abide in the Vine (nothing to do with "good works", it is the heart condition that matters.)

Eh Oyster, good to see you buddy. Long time no chat.

I agree, let's all celebrate our faith in Jesus!

I try to see both sides and possibly a third view point. Calvinism isn't something that I attached to, but I admit I did think about it at one time. Not sure why people believe this, don't see any scriptures that would help support this, that's why I asked Phoneman for them. It's good to hear people out, let people speak.

Bible Study Forum isn't really my safe place, there is usually people that get angry, and fight and stuff. I have some views that are not mainstream Chrisitianity, but if Jesus is our Lord and Savior, we can find common ground some where.

Why highlight the differences, when we all worship the same God? There is to much division, let's unite under Jesus!

Happy Passover to those that celebrate!

Ya. Without Him, we can do nothing. Where we differ is that you see this as a an "opportunity" for men, whereas I see it as God's sovereignty. I see no such thing as free volition for fallen men or prevenient grace in the Bible. I only see sovereign grace given from God's free will. Really the Bible teaches the total depravity of fallen man, and the total unability of fallen men to get right with God. There is no way around this.

If we see salvation as a "possibility" for fallen men, something that fallen men can "opt to choose" out of their own ability then we do err and stray from the Word. Remember that Jesus said that salvation was impossible for men, not possible if they used any so-called "free will". No! That's not in the Bible. Impossible for men. BUT - for God it is possible.

If someone has saving faith, it is totally the work of God. It does not stem from natural man. Only regenerate men can believe. Natural man indeed can not, and does not also want to, believe. Amen.

That is really really sad, friend. You have just put yourself in a sinking boat. Salvation is freely available to all through the Blood of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Whosoever will may come.

Then you do argue with the Word of God (not me). You read scripture out of context. All instances in scripture where God calls for a free will choice, the addressee of these callings are God's people (not natural, fallen men). You are deceived by the free-willers false teaching against the Word of God, making man, not God, sovereign in salvation. Now, that's sad.

You are arguing with the Word of God, not me or any other man.

Yes I do. Jesus did all the heavy lifting at Calvary. All we need do is accept His precious gift. He died for all. Salvation is freely available to all. It is available this very hour. Come just as you are. Let Him wash away your sin today. Humble thyself before the Lord, and He shall save your soul from damnation and unto eternal life.

Ahh, you believe in TULIP?

And this does not imply "free will" for the sinner. Absolutely only a regenerate man want to accept this. Natural man indeed cannot or do not want to do this, since that is just foolishness to him and he is at enmity with God. Only the regenerate can have saving faith. Man's own beliefs cannot save him.

Stop arguing with the Word of God and stop trusting in self. That's my kind advice to ya.

Jesus came to save sinners, not saints.

1 Timothy 1:15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Do you believe in TULIP?

Yes? Does that verse imply that Paul was using his "free-will" to get saved? Nope. But some ignorant people want to read that into scripture.

God indeed transforms or translates sinners from their lost state to a saved state. That's God's work, not the work of the sinner.

Again, you are arguing with the Word of God, man. Not me. Get that.

I would not the see the "L" as equaling anybody being "predestined" to damnation.

I have been posting the Word of God, my friend.

Yes, I do believe that all of us, even non-TULIP, all subscribe to some form of limited atonement.

Let's rest with that then.

Yet you do not have your scriptures harmonize to other scriptures and you read them out of context and also read in things in them that are not there. Thus you still argue with the Word of God. Scripture-quoting is not enough evidence that one has sound doctrine. You are already gainsaying Eph.2 all along. All you dream up is "free will", "opportunity" and the likes, all man-centered and man-made incursions on the Word of God. Apparent your posts.