Not By Works

[Phoneman-777]

That doesn't explain why you are always going around accusing people of sin

Whoa there, I have not nor need not accuse anyone of sin -- you guys admit to it by virtue of your repeated, stubborn, supposed Biblically defended claim that keeping the law is not possible, right or wrong?
Don't run around telling people you can't keep the law, and then get mad at them if they take you at your word.

Do you read the law, then look away and forget what it tells you? The very next thing given to Israel after the decalogue is the law of building an altar. Why? Because they, the ones who just swore to keep the law, are going to be making a whole heaping lot of sin and trespass offerings.

Toddlers fall down a lot but eventually grow up and win marathons. So, why is it so many church folk seem to be only able to crawl away from temptation, hoping it catches up to them?

What is it that makes you so angry with people who are not scared God is going to lose them? Why does the fact that God will never utterly forsake His people piss you off so much?

I'm no more angry with people deceived by false doctrine than God is - to the contrary, I'm just as concerned about the danger it presents as He is.

 

[CherieR]

“ This I say then, walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”

Galatians 5:16-18

“ For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light”

Ephesians 5:8

 

[CherieR]

“ The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.”

Nahum 1:7

 

[CherieR]

Do not know what this image did not show up on my post #151,163 .

View attachment 226636

Yes, that reminds me of a cabin on the Crystal River, in Heaven.

Beautiful

 

[Evmur]

So, which is it? Is the Christian obligated to keep the Ten Commandments or are we free to disregard them? There is no Spiritual Switzerland (only Spiritual Israel ) so, it's either the one or the other.

What we do is walk in the Spirit and fulfil not the desires of the flesh.

Now if we are walking in the Spirit which of the commandments will we break?

 

[Guojing]

It's only circular when you maintain that 'works' are something originating in people. But the Bible doesn't say that - the Bible says it is God working in the saved both to will and to do.

So the works that follow salvation are evidence of that salvation, absolutely, but if there are none, even in the heart unseen by men, then the implications are that God is not at work in the person, because salvation is of God, not of ourselves.

It cannot be that God fails - so the criticism of, as they put it, 'OSAS' is built on a total mischaraterization of salvation, presenting an imaginary person that is truly saved but in whom no change of heart is found.

This is a contradiction of the very meaning of salvation because salvation is a supernatural work of God acting on and in a person. God does not fail and God is not unfaithful to complete what He begins.

Opponents of the faithfulness of God to preserve and redeem the saved portray a person in whom God is not at work, and portray a salvation dependent on a person's will and a person's works, a completely carnal description of our redemption in which God plays no part.

It is no wonder they live in constant fear that their salvation is in jeapordy of being lost, because they believe that they are the ones upon whom the burden of being saved lies - what folly it is to put our trust in man, even in ourselves! We all agree on that.

But the critic then accuses all who do not put their trust in themselves, of practicing and excusing sin. Why?

I prefer the clarity of Romans 4:5

As I have posted in that picture, in Paul's gospel of grace, works should follow salvation but even if they don't, he is still saved, because salvation is a gift to be received by believing 1 Cor 15:1-4

 

[peldom10]

Are YOU READY to answer my QUESTIONS NOW ? ? ?

Do you believe in the HOLY TRINITY ?
And what Denomination do you call HOME ?
And what is New Age Teaching in YOUR MIND ?
And what do you know about BORN AGAIN ?

LOL...you sound murderous if I don't.
I am a Christian and believe in the KJV 1611 edition of the Bible. That should answer all your questions.

 

[peldom10]

A thought just occurred; if good deeds do not flow out of our salvation, are we truly saved?

I get your point but don't relish in your earthly ...saved...concept. That is not scriptural.
On this earth we are ..born again...only. Christ decides our ...saved status...upon judgement after physical death.

 

[peldom10]

I know what it means to "discern" from the bible but I most certainly understand what the bible says about "judge not, least ye be judged."

Judge not is widely miss understood. It means just that but judging righteously is biblical.

 

[posthuman]

Ahhhhhhh, I see it now...your spirit is willing but your flesh is weak which is why His commandments are "too grievous" to keep -- and why we have to be OSAS.

no m8.

we believe in the sovereignty & faithfulness of God.
we believe 'eternal life' actually means "eternal life" and we don't love sin -- it may be quite a shock to you to learn that there is a reason to love righteousness that doesn't have anything to do with fear of damnation, but it is so.

we believe God. that's why we do not fear He will be unable to keep us, and why we are not quiet about that faith

 

[Magenta]

no m8.

we believe in the sovereignty & faithfulness of God.
we believe 'eternal life' actually means "eternal life" and we don't love sin -- it may be quite a shock to you to learn that there is a reason to love righteousness that doesn't have anything to do with fear of damnation, but it is so.

we believe God. that's why we do not fear He will be unable to keep us, and why we are not quiet about that faith

1 John 5:11-13

 

[oyster67]

I recognize how repulsive double predestination sounds, but I have to grapple with the question of 'Who saves me if what I need to be saved from is unbelief?' and it seems to me that it cannot come from myself because 'myself' is the problem that needs to be remedied.

Predestination and election is simply another way of looking at foreknowledge. We cannot see or fathom this because we have neither God's eyes nor His mind. No worries. Just trust Him and take His Word for it. This whole idea of total depravity and inability to make a decision to serve Him came from the pit of hell, not the Word of God. We all start out in unbelief. We all have the opportunity to come to the Light. This is what the Word says.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 10:17 + Galatians 3:5

 

[tribesman]

Predestination and election is simply another way of looking at foreknowledge. We cannot see or fathom this because we have neither God's eyes nor His mind. No worries. Just trust Him and take His Word for it. This whole idea of total depravity and inability to make a decision to serve Him came from the pit of hell, not the Word of God. We all start out in unbelief. We all have the opportunity to come to the Light. This is what the Word says.

So you deny what Ephesians 2 says?

 

[tribesman]

At the very least, you're drinking Calvinist Lite - tastes great, but less filling due to the empty calories

Let's prove it:

T - you claim the Christian remains so Totally Depraved, the law is too grievous for him to keep.
U - Both Unconditional Election and you claim we're not saved by a belief which demands surrender.
L - Limited Atonement - not deceived by that
I - Irresistible Grace - not deceived by that
P - Preservation of the Saints - otherwise known as OSAS. Once your ticket is punched, you're stuck on the train.

Wanna try five outta seven? LOL

Before you go on, try to look more into what other people believe and educate yourself about same rather than to misrepresent what they believe. There are some errors in your remarks, which are hereby corrected.

T - Calvinists do not believe that the law is too grievous for the regenerate to keep.

U - Calvinists teach that everything that have to do with surrendering and law-keeping comes as a fruit of regeneration.

P - Calvinists teach that perseverance is a work that God does. Calvinism does not say that you can indulge in sin and still be OK.

Also, OSAS people do not agree with calvinism on Limited Atonement. The OSAS crowd are not calvinists, at least not calvinist proper.

If unsure what people of other beliefs than yours believe: ask them first what they believe rather than tell them what they believe. If you yet carry on and misrepresent what other people believe then you are bearing false witness against your neighbor. I am sure that you do not like that yourself if other people do so to you.

It's really about engaging yourself in civil conversations. No rocket science.

 

[VCO]

Before you go on, try to look more into what other people believe and educate yourself about same rather than to misrepresent what they believe. There are some errors in your remarks, which are hereby corrected.

T - Calvinists do not believe that the law is too grievous for the regenerate to keep.

U - Calvinists teach that everything that have to do with surrendering and law-keeping comes as a fruit of regeneration.

P - Calvinists teach that perseverance is a work that God does. Calvinism does not say that you can indulge in sin and still be OK.

Also, OSAS people do not agree with calvinism on Limited Atonement. The OSAS crowd are not calvinists, at least not calvinist proper.

If unsure what people of other beliefs than yours believe: ask them first what they believe rather than tell them what they believe. If you yet carry on and misrepresent what other people believe then you are bearing false witness against your neighbor. I am sure that you do not like that yourself if other people do so to you.

It's really about engaging yourself in civil conversations. No rocket science.

I am not a Calvinist, because I do not agree with 2 of the 5 points of Calvinism. And I sure ain't an Arminian.
Besides we Evangelicals BURIED that Calvinist vs. Arminian argument in the early 80's, SO WHO KEEPS DIGGING
THAT SMELLY CORPSE UP ? ? ?

 

[VCO]

LOL...you sound murderous if I don't.
I am a Christian and believe in the KJV 1611 edition of the Bible. That should answer all your questions.

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS OR GO ELSEWHERE. So you do not mind reading the biggest Paraphrase ever ? ? ? The 1611 team admitted that is what they did in the 1611 ORIGINAL PREFACE.

READ IT FOR YOURSELF:
http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm

My Guess is you are Mormon, am I right ? ? ?

 

[tribesman]

I am not a Calvinist, because I do not agree with 2 of the 5 points of Calvinism. And I sure ain't an Arminian.
Besides we Evangelicals BURIED that Calvinist vs. Arminian argument in the early 80's, SO WHO KEEPS DIGGING
THAT SMELLY CORPSE UP ? ? ?

Hello? Can you calm down? There was no calvinist vs arminian debate here. My post that you quoted was about misrepresenting beliefs.

 

[star]

Judge not is widely miss understood. It means just that but judging righteously is biblical.

Constantly judging a brother or sister in Christ is not biblical. "First remove the log from your own eye...."

 

[star]

I disagree, because you claim those who call out the false doctrine of OSAS are "judging" those who adhere to it. "Judge not" means "do not judge motive or eternal destiny". Example:

"You believe OSAS because your love of sin is greater than your love of Jesus." (Motive)
"You're going to hell because you believe in OSAS." (Eternal Destiny)

If anyone tells you or any other OSAS person that, let me know and I will gladly stand next to you and denounce them as antichrist for "taking Christ's place" on His throne of judgment. ("Anti-Christ" literally means in Greek to "take the place of Christ").

You are false in eternal salvation. You are not God to decide what's in the heart of others. I believe in eternal salvation and the sealant of the Holy Spirit. I believe in the work God has done through His Son Jesus Christ. You believe that "you" have to "keep" what God has already done. There are many anti-christs in today's world.