Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

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Kolistus

Kolistus

Well-known member
#61
Feb 3, 2020
538
276
63
#61
Unearthed said:
Please explain what God's love is conditional upon.

I currently reading around the verse you provided.
Click to expand...
John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#62
May 18, 2021
200
70
28
#62
Ok guys and gals, I'm now off to bed.

I wish you all well and thank you for the debate.

My intention here has been no more than to do what Jesus did when he told people to not throw stones at the prostitute.

I know that a handful of you have intended to accuse me of unscriptural deeds however none of this will stick because my intention has not been what some of you have said it has been.

Night night.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#63
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,344
113
#63
Unearthed said:
Ok guys and gals, I'm now off to bed.

I wish you all well and thank you for the debate.

My intention here has been no more than to do what Jesus did when he told people to not throw stones at the prostitute.

I know that a handful of you have intended to accuse me of unscriptural deeds however none of this will stick because my intention has not been what some of you have said it has been.

Night night.
Click to expand...
you are a legend in your own mind
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#65
#65
Unearthed said:
Please explain what God's love is conditional upon.

I currently reading around the verse you provided.
Click to expand...
God's love is not conditional. He loved the whole world so much He sent His only Son to die in the place of sinners...all of us

what is conditional, is forgiveness of sin

you cannot have sins forgiven through good deeds or prayer.

For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age. Titus 2: 11-12

So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. Hebrews 9:28

Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5: 7-8
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#66
#66
Unearthed said:
I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.
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you state in your bio you have been saved since 2018. I do not believe you have the wherewithal or the experience to expound on the practice of churches other than perhaps a few you might have attended

you seem to believe in a very liberal gospel and that is not the gospel of Jesus Christ

you cannot make up your own gospel and homosexuality is a sin, that is mentioned in both testaments

Actually what defines the love of Christ is His obedience to the Father in coming to earth and dying for us while we were still enslaved by sin.

You actually have a very limited worldview of church and apparently have no idea of the many ministries that are available to people at no cost and the fact that your are painting everyone with a very broad brush indicates your limited experience

we do not condemn sin. It is God who condemns sin. He is the one you need to deal with if you find that offensive
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#68
#68
Unearthed said:
I would like to politely warn you that trolling this thread or attempting to derail it will result in you being reported to moderators and placed on ignore.
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there is already a mod in the thread

smh...we are all shaking in our booties. do you really think this is the first time homosexuality has been discussed here? and this isn't the monarchy here. this is the United States so maybe understand the difference in the countries
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#70
#70
Unearthed said:
This is one of the most ignorant posts I have seen on CC.
"However, too much acceptance gives people the wrong idea" sums it up perfectly.
Disgusting.
I'll pray for you.
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speaking of reporting posts, this post of yours is getting purty close as report worthy itself

very interesting thread though. we are really getting to know you :giggle:
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#71
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#71
Unearthed said:
I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.
Click to expand...
I would see this the same way in which perhaps someone who has a problem with same sex attraction, but is sleeping with as many women as he can ,because that's what he is struggling to deal with . He is just that way ' inclined ' . How would you deal with him if you were a pastor ? In love of course ,we should not hate him or abuse him . What's your thoughts?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#72
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,344
113
#72
I recommend a book for you to read " At the Altar of Sexual Idolatry, ". Brother Steve Gallagher has been a great blessing to many men and women suffering from sexual addiction.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#73
Jun 30, 2015
25,472
13,784
113
#73
The problem with how the Church has treated "gays" is two-fold: Christians fail to demonstrate love in their outreach; and they fail to present clearly the need for repentance as part of the conversion process.

The result is that people are either turned away by unloving behaviour, or they are welcomed in without having owned and dealt with their sin and brokenness. Neither situation is desirable.
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#74
May 18, 2021
200
70
28
#74
I have little doubt that some of you would not recognise Jesus if He were to return today.

If He were to reveal Himself to you, some of you would seek to test Him, and question Him in such a way as to entrap Him in His words.
Some of you would find His message so repulsive that you would reject Him.
Let's wait and see...
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#75
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#75
It is not the churchs position to offer unconditional love. It is the Lords position to offer that.

The church is for fellowship of brothers in Christ to come and worship and learn and to teach.


If a person feels "uncomfortable" with the eyes of the church on them imagine how "uncomfortable" they will be in the presence of God.


Unconditional love from the church to serial killers? Serial rapists? Child molestors?

No. The offer for them from the church is to come to Jesus. That is the way, the only way, they will receive unconditional love.


Anyone thinking they will receive unconditional love from a church just doesn't understand what a church is.



Casting stones doesn't mean you never tell someone that what they are doing is wrong. It means you don't put them to death for it.
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#76
May 18, 2021
200
70
28
#76
Grandpa said:
It is not the churchs position to offer unconditional love. It is the Lords position to offer that.

The church is for fellowship of brothers in Christ to come and worship and learn and to teach.

If a person feels "uncomfortable" with the eyes of the church on them imagine how "uncomfortable" they will be in the presence of God.

Unconditional love from the church to serial killers? Serial rapists? Child molestors?

No. The offer for them from the church is to come to Jesus. That is the way, the only way, they will receive unconditional love.

Anyone thinking they will receive unconditional love from a church just doesn't understand what a church is.

Casting stones doesn't mean you never tell someone that what they are doing is wrong. It means you don't put them to death for it.
Click to expand...

"It is not the churchs position to offer unconditional love. It is the Lords position to offer that"
And herein lies the problem with the modern "church": it does not seek to offer what God Himself offers.

We are taught to love our enemies.
Do you know who we are taught not to love...?
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#77
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#77
Unearthed said:
"It is not the churchs position to offer unconditional love. It is the Lords position to offer that"
And herein lies the problem with the modern "church": it does not seek to offer what God Himself offers.

We are taught to love our enemies.
Do you know who we are taught not to love...?
Click to expand...
The church CAN'T offer what God offers.

Only God can offer what God offers.


This is the problem of people expecting the church to act like God. It can't.

The best the church can do is offer an introduction and wait and see what happens.
 
OneOfHis

OneOfHis

Well-known member
#78
Mar 24, 2019
1,430
2,208
113
#78
Unearthed said:
I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.
Click to expand...

There is a very big difference between having a flesh that is tempted by perversions, seeing them as evil and wanting to be delivered from them.... and someone taking pride in their perverse addictions and lying about God even and saying He made them that way.


If a person who identifies as "gay" even loves God a tiny bit, they would actually see their perverted addictions to a form of lust as evil.

If a person looks to scripture to try to prove one of their evil desires is actually good, it shows they have no concern for what God said and it is about what they want.



Love is not bending to others destructive desires that God hates, it is wanting the best for them to the point of self sacrifice.


If I saw someone in love with worldly temporal evil deeds, I would share with them how vile that is and how God is more powerful than those desires and can free them from something as weak as a temporal lust of the flesh. (even if they have fallen so in love with this perversion they identify with it)
 
OneOfHis

OneOfHis

Well-known member
#79
Mar 24, 2019
1,430
2,208
113
#79
Unearthed said:
"It is not the churchs position to offer unconditional love. It is the Lords position to offer that"
And herein lies the problem with the modern "church": it does not seek to offer what God Himself offers.

We are taught to love our enemies.
Do you know who we are taught not to love...?
Click to expand...
Love to a person who is loving their sin and trying to live in it as much as possible, would be to call out their evil. Reprove them.


Not letting them destroy themselves and others with their wicked perversions they justify using a worldly understanding which is far from God.
 
J

joaniemarie

Senior Member
#80
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#80
Jesus :love: doesn't require us to come all bathed and clean to Him for salvation. Jesus calls us to come to Him as we are and He will bath and clean us. :):):):):):):):):):):)
 
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