Works

Nobody says "God took back the old testament".

NOBODY.

But for some reason, you keep repeating this falsehood.

Blik said:

I don’t think that is true at all, God improved it.

Click to expand...

That's where you're wrong. You simply don't accept that the old covenant ENDED, despite having been told repeatedly, with reference to Scripture, MANY times.

Salvation according to the Greek means "a deliverance". There is an eternal deliverance that is given as a gift by God's sovereign grace, without any action on mankind's part. (not of works), and there is a deliverance that the born again child of God receives as he sojourns here on earth. Most of the salvation scriptures are referencing the deliverance that the born again child of God receives here on earth by their good works.

Eph 2:10 Matthew 25 Hebrews 11 book of James Gal 5

Putting it simply good works is the natural output of faith.

Right. Works have no relation at all to deliverance. This post is not about acts for deliverance, that would be ridiculous for works do not apply to deliverance, deliverance has nothing whatsoever to do with this post.

Have you read what this post is about?

This is true. We are speaking of determining about good works that stand alone without being built by faith in Jesus. and wondering about them.

It is true if you stand in the rain without a hat you will get wet, and that is true for a Christian and for a Jew who does not obey out of love for Christ. Both get wet equally. Does this rule apply to people who work to obey the Lord, is there the same result for their obedience, and is earthly blessings part of that result? That is my question for discussion.

Scripture tells us the rain falls equally on all people, would that be true of all of God's ways and laws? If so, then works will not save but works bring blessings.

God looks at our works here on earth for sure. Read the book of Revelation, first 3 chapters. God says to the churches, "I know your works". Some works are dead, because they originate with the self of the soul and they are carried out by human strength and ingenuity. Lord Jesus said, "Apart from me, you can do nothing." And that's what God considers self effort to be - nothing. (1 Corinthians 3:10-16)

God's purpose in saving us is for His Kingdom. When we seek His kingdom first, we will experience tribulation and blessing (Matthew 6:33). We will be rewarded also in the next life for what we have done in this life. If we've allowed Lord Jesus to control us and empower us, we will have rewards. If we live for self, we will get into heaven, but with little or no reward. We get one shot at life. Let's not waste it.

What a true thoughtful post, that some works are dead. You say they are dead when they originate with ourselves.

The works of an atheist originate with pride in self. The works of a Christian originate from the Holy Spirit working within, from Christ within. The works of an orthodox Jew originate from wanting to obey the Father. Yet if any one of these three hate there is a direct result of the hate they have. Do all three of these people have the same fleshly results from their work? Salvation is not included in work for any of them.

In the Book of James, we learn that faith without works is dead. Catholics say you need faith and works whereas Protestants say works is the result of faith; I think this is all semantics.

I don't think it is accurate to say that ALL works from nonbelievers originate from pride/selfish reasons. God gave all mankind conscience, according to Romans 2. Also, anything good, especially a personality trait such as kindness or sincerity, comes from God not Satan.

All good comes from God, no glory to us.
i agree with the protestants, works are the result of faith;
All good comes from God, no glory to us.
If you trust someone, your actions will show it.

If i have true faith that Jesus will raise me from the dead and i have eternal life in Him, i will not be fearful of death, or slow to put my life in His hands. The works will show your faith.

Sometimes I believe Protestants just twist the meaning to fit the Protestant view. Even Martin Luther wanted to get rid of the Book of James because of that verse (also a few other books in the Bible which promote works). I think works can be both the result of faith, as well as apart from faith.

Wow, I just posted this from James.
James 2:22
(ABP+) Do you seeG991 thatG3754 theG3588 beliefG4102 was working togetherG4903 with G3588 his works,G2041 G1473 andG2532 byG1537 theG3588 worksG2041 theG3588 beliefG4102 was perfected?G5048
(ASV) Thou seest that faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect;
(CEV) Now you see how Abraham's faith and deeds worked together. He proved that his faith was real by what he did.
(French LS) Tu vois que la foi agissait avec ses oeuvres, et que par les oeuvres la foi fut rendue parfaite.
(French OB) Ne vois-tu pas que la foi agissait avec ses œuvres, et que par les œuvres la foi fut rendue parfaite?
(German EB) Du siehst, daß der Glaube zu seinen Werken mitwirkte, und daß der Glaube durch die Werke vollendet wurde.
(Hebrew NT DD) הנך ראה כי־האמונה עזרת למעשיו ומתוך המעשים השלמה האמונה׃
(ISV) You see that his faith worked together with what he did, and by his actions his faith was made complete.
(Italian GD) Tu vedi che la fede operava insieme con le opere d'esso, e che per le opere la fede fu compiuta.
(KJV) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
(KJV+) SeestG991 thou howG3754 faithG4102 wrought withG4903 hisG846 works,G2041 andG2532 byG1537 worksG2041 was faithG4102 made perfect?G5048
(KJV-1611) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
(KJVA) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
(MKJV) Do you see how faith worked with his works, and from the works faith was made complete?
(Spanish RV) ¿No ves que la fe obró con sus obras, y que la fe fué perfecta por las obras?
(Spanish RV+) ¿No vesG991 queG3754 laG3588 feG4102 obróG4903 con susG846 obrasG2041, yG2532 queG3754 laG3588 feG4102 fué perfectaG5048 porG1537 lasG3588 obrasG2041?

So, what do I derive from the possts?
If after receiving faith, a gift, we do not do good works given us by our Father, we do not only hide our faith, we will lose it.

Praise God, He is worthy,, not we, amen.

' Works ' is now an unfortunate loaded word today . Once we are saved ,we stay saved . This should be wonderful motivation to ' work ' ,for others and furthering the Gospel.

Only if YOU load it.
The word is employed in the New Testament many times. Stop the OSAS and read believing.

I said ' once saved stay saved '

Yes Romans 2 talks about man ' doing good ' . But by chapter 3 Paul makes it clear that inspite of this he has sinned and fallen short..

I think when you compare 'works 'as we see in Thessalonians and Philippians with 80% of what most Christians think 'works 'are ,it looks nothing like the same .Most are working on themselves ,either for their salvation or for sanctification.

A person who works hard will (usually) earn rewards from that hard work. You characterize these rewards as "blessings". I think that's the root of your misunderstanding.

Atheists who work hard earn rewards just the same as Christians or Jews. It appears that you are trying to make the argument that because Jews were God's chosen people 3,000 years ago, that the rewards which hardworking Jews receive today are "God's blessings" (while similar rewards that hardworking atheists receive are irrelevant).

That's flawed thinking.