What do you think about works?

I asked you to clarify these comments and instead you differ and create a red herring

this post really does not make sense although that bit about the Essene's personal bathroom habits may have been of interest to you, this is not kindergarten so no one is giggling

you have made the statement that there are sacrificial laws to help the Jews keep the 10 commandments

unless you can show biblical support for such a comment, in other words put your facts where your attempts at comedy are, you are simply blowing smoke

Thank you I'll work on it diligently

Yes, definitely. There are several covenants in Scripture; God made covenants with Noah, Abraham, and David as well as with Israel and with believers in Christ. That with Israel, given at Sinai, is called the "old covenant", and Jesus tells us of the new covenant in His blood at the last supper.

yes, but the covenant most spoken of here are as you have rightly put, "the old covenant", and "the new covenant in Christ".
But are they the same covenant or not ?

I was offering some information to a couple of brethren, ..that I was led to while seeking the Lord.....Why Saturday?, What's the difference between the major religion's, what's the difference between the old and the new testament? what's the meaning of "hidden in the dark for 1260 days".....etc, all the question's an enquiring mind would ask, that help make the decision to turn away from life as they knew it, to one that would alienate them from family and friends, then turn them into an obedient, loving and kind person, because all the enquiries led back to ..... follow this man Christ, do exactly as he says and does, and learn from the book about him and his father.

simple really.

No; the old covenant is designed to show humans that we are sinful and in need of a saviour. It was given to Israel who consistently demonstrated that they could not follow it. The new covenant is the solution to the problem of sin; Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the old covenant so that, for believers in Him, it is no longer in force. Instead, we are empowered by the indwelling Holy Spirit to live as God wants us to live... not by self-effort at following laws, but by a heart-change such that the inclination to sin no longer holds sway in our lives.

I read scripture as saying it is sin that brings death. The law only tells us what is sin. There are many, many scriptures telling us what the law is. Christ even changed the law for Christ said of the law in stone: you have been told and then but I tell you. Christ said he did not change or take away what his Father gave us, but he explained it and added to it. Before the law was rules like cutting skin and the ten commandments in stone. Christ changed it to the spirit of the law.

Paul spoke lots about law, explaining the way Christ changed it. The 119th Psalm starts out: Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord.

There is a difference between the law in stone and the spirit of the law. With the new covenant putting the law in our hearts we are to listen to the spirit of the law not the law in stone.

So your saying...that because Jesus fulfilled the ten commandments, we who believe in him are no longer bound by them...
Instead you say "we are empowered by the indwelling Holy spirit to live as GOD wants us to live"... with out having to follow the commandments.
that because we feel it strongly enough in our hearts, we don't have to do anything?
Doesn't God want us to live like Jesus?....How can we do that if we don't have to fulfil the covenant, which is a big part of his teachings.
We on here say we have had that heart-change,.. and yet there is so much strong evidence of name calling, sarcasm, wrong assumptions, misinterpretation, ridicule, and indignation....how come those things reared their ugly heads, if we have Christ in our hearts( who took those things away)

so I guess you cannot clarify your comments

did you loose your Bible?

I'm really not interested in anything you do in your own time. I'm asking questions within the forum context

are you going to answer? and don't say ask the questions again. don't play those games

I can enthusiastically agree with this blik

Christ has fulfilled the law and we are given the Holy Spirit to follow Him, understanding that the law does not condemn us because Christ fulfilled it so that we can go to God without our sin

cut it out

a blind person can see no one is saying that

do you have anything of substance to offer?

rubbish

no one said that and no one is thinking that. move on from twisting what others say

Jesus fulfilled the law... not merely the ten commandments.

The Holy Spirit working in us changes our core motivations from always sinful towards always righteous (actually getting there takes a lifetime... or a little longer). It's not a matter of "following the commandments" or not; if you live by the Spirit, you fulfill the law... not by avoiding certain things, but by doing the right things. That's why it is said that all the law is summed up in these two commands: love the Lord and love your neighbour.

As I said, Jesus fulfilled the old covenant; there is nothing left for us to fulfill. The final mortgage payment has been made; why would we come along and say, "I'll make another payment!"? We fulfill the new covenant by continuing to believe in Jesus' finished work.

We don't live the Christian life perfectly because we aren't perfectly sanctified. However, if we are sensitive to the indwelling Holy Spirit, we will sense when our actions and words are displeasing to Him, and change for the better.

Now let's begin by taking a look at both of the laws and how they worked together. We will see there were two laws given to Moses, they were the commandments and the sacrificial law. Watch how they worked together.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: (Leviticus 4:1-2) The law in the scriptures above is the commandments.

Notice something else very important in these two scriptures. It states, "if a soul shall sin through ignorance." Notice that the scripture did not says on purpose. Why? There is no sacrifice for a sin that is committed willfully. Let's find out what was to be done if a person committed a sin against the Lord unintentionally. Let's skip down to the 27th verse and take a look at the second law (which is the sacrificial law).

And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. (Leviticus 4:27-30)

When the common people sinned through ignorance and it came to their knowledge, what did they have to do? They brought an offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for their sin which they had committed, then the priest would offer the animal to the Lord. Think about this for a moment. If an animal was killed for a person that committed sin, what will happen to us today if we a trespass against the Lord? We will find that out later. Now we see how the sacrificial law was used when a person broke a commandment unintentionally.


Let's go into Paul's writings and take another look at both of these laws. We will go into the Book of Galatians chapter 3.
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Galatians 3:19)

Take heed to what Paul's says above, "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions." What is transgression? Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4) Transgression is braking of the commandments. What law was added because of the braking of the law? The sacrificial law! Paul is simply asking these Gentiles, "why perform the sacrificial law? It was added because of sin until the seed should come. Who is the seed?

Let's back up in this chapter and find out.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ. (Galatians 3:16) Who is the SEED? CHRIST! So, this law was added (which is the sacrificial law) until Christ came. What was the sacrificial law used for until Christ came? Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Galatians 3:24) The sacrificial law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Galatians 3:3)

The spirit in this case is the word of God, but pay close attention to what Paul says at the end of the verse. "Are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Can we be made perfect by the flesh? What flesh is Paul talking about? Let's go to the book of Hebrews and find out.

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

The flesh Paul spoke of was the animal sacrifices. Notice what the verse says, "never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect." That's pretty clear don't you think? Let's go back to Galatians chapter 3 and take note how Paul uses the word "law" but does not say this is the sacrificial law or the Commandments. But as we read further in the chapter we will see the difference between the two.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)

We have both Laws with in this verse. In the first part of the verse where it states, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:" This law is the sacrificial law, let's skip to the 13th verse and we will see this clearly. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: (Galatians 3:13)

Notice what's being said, "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us." How was he made a curse for us? He took on our sins and redeemed us from the curse of the sacrificial law which could never take away sin. Now take a look at the next set of verses and we will see indeed that only the sacrificial law was nailed to the cross.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (Colossians 2:13-14)

Notice this, "He quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross. Why was this law (which is the sacrificial law) contrary to us?

Notice this in Hebrews the 10th chapter; For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. (Hebrews 10:4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. That is why it was contrary to us. The sacrificial law simply could not make us perfect.

Isn't ten commandments, Law,'s and work's all the same thing ?
what other Law did Jesus fulfil ?
Lucky I AM a Christian (follower of Christ, & not perfect), because this would be confusing, read one thing in the Bible, and told something else.
If the Holy Spirit changed us, If we live by the Spirit, then why are are there VINDICTIVE reply's on here, by those who claim to have that Spirit ? and if your doing the right thing, aren't you avoiding doing certain (wrong) things? (isn't that works according to some)
If you read/remember the 10 commandments, ... doing the first 3, isn't that showing your Love for GOD...and if you stop (keep the commandments) yourself from committing any of the last 5, ...isn't that showing your Love for your neighbour as well as your mother & father?
BECAUSE Christ made the payment (sacrifices his life), we get to choose whether or not we are willing to make the same payment, sacrifice our (worldly) life, and TRY to follow his example...of successfully overcoming temptation's until we sleep (die).
Yes you are correct as Christians we should sense when our actions and words are displeasing...but not to the Lord,... to your fellow man,
Those are the very things we are Judged on, by GOD at the end, and by mankind while alive, especially if we say we are Christians.
We must ask for his guidance, his understanding, his knowledge, his wisdom...of his word, his commandments, his son, and his Spirit.
He is the WAY, he is the TRUTH, he is the LIFE.

Your right, He did not take it away

If you commit adultry. You have broken the law

If you have broken the law. You have been cursed by the law

The only way to be freed from the curse is sacrifrice, and shedding of Blood

The blood of Bulls and goats (according to the law the atonement for sin) could never take away sin. So Christ himself shed his own blood as the lamb of God.

Thats how the law is the schoolmaster

the ten commands give us a basis

No one has ever kept even these ten. So we are ALL UNDER SIN.

Once we come to our knees and repent of this fact. We are then able to call out on the name of Jesus. Who shed his blood for our sin

Once this is accomplished/

THE LAW CAN NO LONGER HELP US. It has DONE ITS JOB.

No, they aren't. When you have time, read through Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers, and you'll see there is much more to the law. ALL of it was required; breaching any ordinance made you a lawbreaker.

See above... the entire law.

Luck has nothing to do with it.

Because the change is slow, not instant. We are instantly translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light upon salvation, but we carry our old habits, inclinations, and patterns with us.

Doing the right thing is inherently different than avoiding doing the wrong thing. If I drive at the speed limit, I am doing the right thing. If I attempt not to drive above the speed limit, I am trying to avoid doing the wrong thing. The latter is far more work. By doing the right thing, we don't need to concern ourselves about not doing the wrong thing.

No. Jesus demonstrated that keeping the law involved far more than "Do this" and "Don't do that". Firstly, the motivation is different; and secondly, the result is different. If you don't call anyone else your wife, don't get involved intimately with any other woman, and avoid pornography, does that demonstrate that you love your wife? Hardly.

Incorrect. Jesus told us to count the cost before making the commitment; too many people think they get to make that choice after.

Again, incorrect. The opinions of other people are fickle and capricious, rooted in a vast array of mixed experiences, beliefs, and perceptions. God is consistent, and if our actions are pleasing to Him, how would the opinions of men matter?

We are judged on whether or not we accepted Jesus' sacrifice in our place. If not, we pay the penalty for our own sin.

Yes; on this we agree.

yes, this is why we are told to:


"... grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. "


g r o w IN both g r a c e and k n o w l e d g e


this must mean there are lesser degrees of grace,

and............................................................... ............... greater


this must mean there are lesser degrees of knowledge,

and............................................................... ................ greater


and to be on our guard (a work -- an awareness -- an always / often work),



so that , so that, so that , so that -- ??


17 ... you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and f a l l from your s e c u r e s t a n d i n g.


You ought to conduct yourselves in holiness and godliness (11)

No "law" keeping mentioned.
Thank you Lord!

Amen!

no, not a list I guess. only steadfastness and not falling into the error. of the lawless. lawless -- without law. also holiness and godliness are mentioned that we are to conduct ourselves in, and in the same chapter -- hastening the day. the holiness and godliness leads to hastening the day.... but the error of the lawless (without law) leads to being of the many most likely not the few of the narrow way.

This is a very good commentary on law, but it has nothing to do with what God called our schoolmasters. I note you label the law as commandments and sacrificial law. Different people put different labels on the differences in law. One person I have studied said it was a difference in kingdoms. God prepared a kingdom in Israel with territory, laws, commandments. Then Christ came and established the kingdom of heaven open to men of all territories, with revolutionary laws, and a demand of absolute loyalty. The laws became the spirit of the law.