Great GRACE Departure - WHICH Day?

amen agreed the scripture does that in every area and is harmonious throughout the Bible. We can read the prophets , the gospel , epistles and revelation and find perfect harmony and a very clear message that isn’t as complex as we make it by interpreting various words and ideas into it.

in all subject matter it’s the same as you have highlighted there regarding the day of the lord.

Scripture is always repetitive and is more and more revealed as more is taken in until there’s a real cohesive and consistent understanding of a clear message that is much simpler than it appears to be at the first , when we don’t allow scripture to set up and explain the latter scripture

yeah I think it’s better to just read and accept scripture as is

^ I do.

That's why I believe what it says in the 1Th5 context (as being DISTINCT FROM what Jesus spoke in His Olivet Discourse [same "watch"-word], for example--because of being a distinct CONTEXT):

"...that WHETHER WE MAY WATCH *OR* WHETHER WE MIGHT SLEEP [same two Grk words as in the v.6 SAME CONTEXT, referring to the SAME THINGS as v.6] we may live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him"



[you... according to your previous posts anyway... do not seem to "believe what it says" ^ , however]

Don't believe anything that says this event is the rapture. Here are 5 expert sources that prove the "departure" in 2 Thess 2:3 is the Apostasy:

Strong's definition G646

apostasia

ap-os-tas-ee'-ah

Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”) : - falling away, forsake.

Total KJV occurrences: 2


Thayer Definition:

G646 apostasia


1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647

Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88

Total KJV occurrences: 2





Abbott-Smith Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament

Apostasia

defection, apostasy, revolt; in late Gk. (MM, Exp., viii; Lft., Notes, 111; Cremer, 308) for cl. ?p?stas?? , freq. in sense of political revolt, in LXX (e.g. Joshua 22:22, 2 Chronicles 29:19, Jeremiah 2:19) and NT always of religious apostasy: Ac21:21, II Th 2:3.







Liddell and Scott:

A defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God , apostasy, LXX Jo.22.22, 2 Ep.Th.2.3 .





Winer's Grammar:



Apostasia, a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 ; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 3629) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say Apostasis; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).

ahh you mean I don’t follow your interpretations ? If you notice to agree with your posts one would have to Not actually read the text and base everything on your interpretations of every word until they are guided into whatever you think.

but what would happen if they just took what’s there without anyone needing to explain everything ?

Isaiah 13:9-10 is certainly TRUE... (see the LXX of verse 9's "DESTROY [G622]"--the word I had mentioned in my previous post... corresponding with that same word in Lk17:27,29 "DESTROYED [G622] ALL").



The thing is, "the Day of the Lord" is a VERY LENGTHY TIME PERIOD "*IN WHICH*" very MUCH will transpire within it... It INCLUDES all THREE of the following:

--the 7 yr Tribulation period upon the earth (the "IN THE NIGHT" aspect OF it);

--His Second Coming to the earth (the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" aspect OF it); AND

--His 1000-yr reign / Millennial Kingdom age on/over the earth (the "reign... GLORIOUSLY" aspect OF it)


... ALL THREE OF THOSE make up the ENTIRE LONG "TIME PERIOD" known as "the Day of the Lord" (first JUDGMENTs unfolding over time [*INCLUDING* the "G622 DESTROYED" of Lk17:27,29 / Isa13:9b]... then BLESSINGs unfolding [<---ALL OF THAT *INCLUDED* in the earthly TIME-PERIOD known as "the day of the Lord"--and entirely "earthly-located"]).



But the Isaiah 13:9-10 passage (like many passages do) is condensing the material it's covering... so that ALL OF IT is indeed TRUE and going to TAKE PLACE (FOR SURE!) in that very LENGTHY TIME PERIOD... just not all at the same MOMENT
(just like where Isaiah 61's first few verses is covering a VAST SPANS OF TIME... similar to THAT, see).

Certain words and phrases WITHIN any given context (covering the Subject of "the day of the Lord" VERY LENGTHY time period) connect with certain points-of-time [or even certain-spanses-of-time] WITHIN that ENTIRE LENGTHY TIME PERIOD known as "the day of the Lord" (it is not merely "a singular 24-hr day"... nor does it COMMENCE merely at the point of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19... but YEARS PRIOR to that point... at the START of what is the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3... Matt24:4/Mk13:5<--corresponding with Rev6:2 [FIRST seal] at the START of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" TIME PERIOD (aka the 7-yr Trib), per Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1... NOT commencing way later at the Rev19 POINT-IN-TIME--Christ's Second Coming to the earth--when the Matt24:29-31 thing takes place)

One should grasp that the SAME GREEK WORDS are used in verse 6 of this CONTEXT (as are found in v.10)... so that they should be understood as being connected (v.6 and v.10 speaking of THE SAME THINGS) WITHIN ITS OWN CONTEXT. I find that few people want to acknowledge these words within their own CONTEXT... Thus, they come up with an incorrect "interpretation" by their disregarding this fact.

^ And as a P.S. to my post:

[BOTTOM OF] my Post #172 - https://christianchat.com/threads/2...ly-describing-the-rapture.201570/post-4663932




[whatever it is that verse 6 is speaking to, in this 1Th5 CONTEXT, that is ALSO what v.10 is speaking to by its using the SAME TWO GREEK WORDS as in v.6 just prior to v.10]

one would do better to grasp the scripture as it’s written and realize that several professional and exhaustive language experts have already translated the scripture from Aramaic and greek into English. So English speakers of today can read the same things they wrote in Aramaic , Hebrew and greek that God said and then the apostles explained so we can just be believers

As far as the length of time that the Day of the Lord lasts, it occurs after the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:36-41 days that when the Son of man comes it will be like the flood in the days of Noah. It took everyone by surprise. As we know, the great flood in the days of Noah took about 1 year before Noah and his family left the ark.

However, just because it took 1 year for Noah and his family to finally leave the ark doesn't mean that the time of God's wrath will last a year. This is just speculation.

“For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day;

the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭34:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:10-11‬ ‭

it will come in an instant and last forever but so will the glory of believers

“For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:2-6, 9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you mean it ARRIVES after the GT (which I suspect you mean),
then Paul's wording in 1Th5:2-3 disagrees with that notion,

...where he says it ARRIVES... "exactly like [G5618 hōsper]" the INITIAL "[THE] birth PANG [SINGULAR; G5604 "ōdin"]" that comes upon a woman (THE FIRST ONE!!... of MANY MORE that FOLLOW ON from THERE!)... i.e. "suddenly [G160]"...
...Jesus spoke of THIS VERY THING (SAME WORD, G5604 "ōdinōn" - "birth PANGS" in the plural) in His Olivet Discourse (prophesying of the SAME THING),
...which those very "beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL; G5604 "ōdinōn"]" (Matt24/Mk13) He spoke of are EQUIVALENT to the SEALS of Rev6...commencing at the START of the 7-yr Trib
(not commencing at its ENDING [/His "RETURN" to the earth]!!)

...IOW, starting 7 yrs PRIOR TO His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19/Mt24:29-31!









[and Peter's use of the wording of Isaiah 34:4 in his 2Pet3:10-12 passage, should be understood in the context of BOTH CHPTS of Isaiah 34-35, not merely the ONE VERSE (34:4) extracted out from its wider context (2 chpts) so that an entirely novel understanding can be imposed upon what it is that Peter is actually conveying... and where also his words "IN WHICH" speaks to that LONG SPANS OF TIME in which MUCH will transpire, not merely consisting of "a singular 24-hr day"... and not only ARRIVING at the point of Christ's Second Coming to the earth... NO... it INCLUDES the "IN THE NIGHT / DARK / DARKNESS" aspect OF it (associated with the "LAMPS LIT" / "WATCHES [of the night]" things, per the gospels... as well as the man of sin's "IN HIS TIME" things, 2Th2:6 [Dan7:7]... etc etc... etc... [way too much to cover in this post... and ppl rarely examine the scripture references I supply anyway... ])]

The day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night, after the tribulation, at the moment of or shortly Jesus returns.

Matthew 24:36-44 KJV
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 KJV
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

God wrote His word for children - only His Children can comprehend the whole message from beginning to end.
The intellect of man is defiled by sin and can only scratch the surface.
Without the Holy Spirit even the disciples were perplexed until they were baptized in Him on Pentecost.
i am not a Pentecostal, labels are for religion, not the free.

Always remember how you have learned from the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit.
The Scripture cannot lie neither can the Spirit of Truth who is our Comforter.
When the carnal mind of man seeks to teach from scripture, the Spirit is watching and He knows all things and even the motives of a man's heart.
You see how He will not permit them to understand even when the Scripture is in front of them everyday.
The Spirit bears Witness to our spirit what the Truth is and confirms it in the Word and then again within us.
The Father Son and Holy Spirit all bear Witness to the Truth.
And as He was praying, heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

I'm examining them right now.....
Again. I've already been through these references a number of times but I always need a refresher every so often.

there are differing gifts dispersed brother all Christians are Gods children but not all are called to understand the depths of doctrine but only those called to those gifts

“Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;

to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

To another faith by the same Spirit;

to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

To another the working of miracles;

to another prophecy;

to another discerning of spirits;

to another divers kinds of tongues;

to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

For the body is not one member, but many.

If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:

That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles,

secondarily prophets,

thirdly teachers,

after that miracles,

then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:4-11, 13-17, 21-31‬ ‭

see some only hear a certain area well others have prophetic understanding because they are to share doctrine and are able to fathom mysteries others don’t see , others have a gift of teaching and have good solid understanding of the foundations of doctrine , but the more members are those with various other gifts that aren’t requiring them to hear and know the depths of doctrine because they aren’t called to that area of building up and helping others to grow

even encouraging people o may have less understanding of the scriptures are gifted to encourage , others have great compassion and will sit and listen to someone needing help and someone to listen and be compassionate ect

if we would only come together and not worry about who knows what or who has a certain gift we covet , or who is called to serve in administrations behind the scenes or who is that person of great faith and has powerfully effective prayers , or who lays hands on others and heals ect

if there was no notice of envy among us , no real pride or care of who happens to know what we would be a very strong entity on this earth and would have a solid body where there was a home and comfort form Thy law gifted in areas seeming to get attention and equally those who have gifts who don’t seem to get any glory or credit because they are called to a different gift

some simply don’t need to know what another knows because they aren’t called to that purpose but to other purposes that the other isn’t called to .

I believe it is designed by God this way in that we truly need to love one another and become close me and more accepting and less judgemental, more welcoming for those who have various understandings. But we never want to yield to the lesser seeming gifts of we are called to a doctrinal gift

sometimes we can learn from people who have no depth of scriptural understanding by their compassion or faith or acceptance , bu thoer serbice and humility , by thoer administrative gifts ect but when we aren’t together as one we are weak and have many chinks in our armor

I believe the design is for us to be together and stronger in love and weakest in pride and division we need one another no matter how much we know or what gifts were called to were incomplete without the bond of brotherly and sisterly love and welcoming in Christ

our hearts should always be open wide to others who call upon his name because that’s how we become his children what we do with that as we live is another subject but we’re born by faith through grace and then later we recognize our role in the body by the gifts we receive and cultivate and embrace individually but always they are for the edification of the whole

there are several
Other passages about spiritual gifts and this same idea which I’m positive you or ably can think of off hand lol like I also can it’s a good subject that I’m finding really holds a loving lesson to our hearts in Christ we are truly one body and church reaching even unto those across the globe

So many beliefs about how, what, why, when and where the comming of Jesus will be like.

The bible is plan. No one knows the day or the hour, it will be a surprise, like a thief in the night.
But if your watching it will not take you by surprise because we are given signs.
The unsaved will die and the saved will be with Jesus in the Holy City above for the 1000 years.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Correct, Precious friend. The Confusion of MANY beliefs is caused by failure
to Rightly Divide God's Word Of Truth, According To HIS Bible "study" Rules!
When God Is obeyed, THEN "The Bible IS Plain And Clear"! Amen? Brief example:

Prophecy/Law, gospel of the kingdom, The Second prophesied coming of CHRIST,
with Signs, to ISRAEL, to rule and reign On the EARTH!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!”:

MYSTERY/GRACE, The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God, The UNprophesied {SECRET}
Coming Of CHRIST, With NO signs, For The Body Of CHRIST, To Go to HEAVEN!!
........................................... ↨ ↨ ↨ ↨ ↨ ↨ ↨ ↨
“(...we walk By FAITH, NOT by sight!…)” (2Cor_5:7 KJB!)
Incorrect, as PLAINLY shown above.
Correct, The Bible Is PLAIN And Clear, as long as "studied" as shown above!!!

More Rightly Divided "studies" are here, For Scriptural Confirmation!:
A) God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels

B) Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!

C) Great GRACE {MYSTERY} Departure @ the 2nd coming {prophecy}?

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, today?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God’s Simple Will!

Clear example of heresy when you say "Two Different Gospels"