How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

Also, I might add, if you want to make the elect be gathered from heaven then post-trib rapture works with that too.

Doesn't Matthew 24:29-31 say the elect are gathered after the tribulation from one end of heaven to another?

Where is the only place in scripture where the church (the elect) is gathered from the sky? In the rapture.

This is where the elect are gathered from the heavens (the clouds and air)
1 Thessalonians 4:17
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Again, the Bible does not give any wiggle room to shoehorn in a pre-trib rapture. Pre-trib never fits context nor is it ever plainly stated.

Winnowing is act of repeatedly tossing wheat into the air until the chaff is blown away and the fruit remains. Winnowing in itself does not line up well as a metaphor for rapture.

The wheat is a clear metaphor for those that produce spiritual fruits through Christ. If those in Christ are counted as "the Church" this is necessarily what the wheat is describing.

The church is known by many terms such as salt of the earth, wheat, body of Christ, the elect, the saints, and probably more.

It's disappointing that you need to forego the scripture to make wheat mean something else other than the righteous people of the church, that the angels will gather at the end of the world, just to help prop up your pre-trib doctrine.

Matthew 13:39
39 "...the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."

2 Thes 1:9
"And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction."

https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/53-3/the-vengeance-of-the-lord-jesus-part-2

"Now here we find something that needs our attention: The word "eternal." This pain, this misery, this depression, this affliction is forever. The word "eternal" is aiōn and it basically means a period of undefined length, age-long. However long the age is, that's how long this is. The reason it's always translated "eternal" is because it is always associated with eternal things. Seventy-five times aiōn is used in the New Testament. Out of seventy-five, only three refer to other than an endless duration. Only three times is this word used for other than an endless duration: Romans 16:25; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2. Seventy-two of the seventy-five mean an endless duration. For example, it is used of God. God is aiōn. He is eternal, Romans 16:26. In John 3:16 it is used of our time in heaven, or our period in heaven, which is eternal, forever. Hebrews 5:9 it is used of our salvation, which is forever. In Hebrews 9:12 of our redemption, which is forever, and on and on for 72 times; it must mean forever. The coming age has no end, as God has no end, as we have no end, as salvation has no end. It is not an abbreviated time, it is forever."

Nope

Zec 2:6
for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the Lord
Daniel 11:4
And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven
Daniel 8:8
Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
Jeremiah 49:36
And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven

That word is where the English word "eon" comes from. Depending on how it is used it can mean a long length of time, or figuratively as a very long length of time, perpetual, eternal, etc.

Each instance might use a different context. It would be more fruitful if you were to present your case for why you feel your interpretation (that the passages in question specifically connote "eternity") is more compelling than the opposing opinion.

I see that you find this to be compelling, but I'm not seeing why you find it compelling.

But even if it is "eternal destruction" that doesn't necessarily mean that the process of the destruction is forever, as it may mean that the result of the destruction is forever. In that case you would also have to demonstrate your case for the meaning of "destruction" in that instance.

The word "destruction" in 2 Thess. 1:9 is defined as destruction, death. It means eternal death and not eternal life.

G3639 olethros
Strong's Concordance
olethros: destruction, death
Original Word: ὄλεθρος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: olethros
Phonetic Spelling: (ol'-eth-ros)
Definition: destruction, death
Usage: ruin, doom, destruction, death.

It should also be obvious that if a person is thrown into an existing fire created by God, that the person would die and then be destroyed in a short time into nothing at all. There's going to be pain involved but not for a long time. Death happens first, destruction happens a short while later.

If a person was immortal and the same thing happened, then no death and no destruction would happen which is the opposite of what the bible says.

How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

cuz Rev told us everyone who believe in Truth will be killed at a time, then cuz people fear death then Pre-Trib Rapture

No.

And, no games.

Think about this for a bit...

Revelation 14:

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Why is it time for Jesus to reap?

Just exactly what kind of 'harvest' do you think will take place just before the Wrath of God is "poured out" upon the wicked?

Remember - they are being separated from the wicked and spared from the Wrath of God.

The harvest is of the grapes of wrath from the earth.

"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." - Matthew 5:45 KJV

One interpretation of the earth harvest for the grapes of wrath is that there is a long period of time where evil prospers and goes unpunished but eventually the fruits of evil deeds becomes realized (reap what you sow).

To interpret the harvest of the grapes of wrath as a metaphor for the "rapture of the righteous" doesn't make much sense to me.

The parable of the tares explains this reaping. But the Rapture is not in this passage all, no matter how much people try to force it in. The Resurrection/Rapture takes place long before the reaping for the winepress of God's wrath. The harvest of the earth is NOT the harvest of Heaven.

Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.


This is Jesus rapturing the living saints. Once this is finished, then the unsaved will receive the wrath of God:



Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

This second reaping is clearly a punishment given in the analogy of crushing grapes to make wine.

This order matches other passages that describe the rapture, and then the wrath of God happening after. This is the only time Revelation speaks of the rapture event.

The audience. Paul defined it really good he said we preach Christ and him crucified. To the Jews a stumbling block and the Greeks foolishness. Why because the Jews seek a sign and the Greeks wisdom.

So one message but two different obstacles. The Jews did not find that Christ was the messiah. The Greeks or us gentiles we find it foolish.

Has not changed if you have ever witnessed you will find the same two obstacles today. You will find that you have to overcome science or the worlds wisdom, be it atheism or evolution or etc. You have to overcome that these folks see it as foolishness.

Talk to someone who is Jewish or religious and you face the obstacle of I was baptized as a child or I am a member of church and etc. Christ faced the problem that Jews would claim I am ethnically Abrahams seed so I am good to go. To which he would let them know that is not the case. So is the same today.

For us though though the distinction is between the unsaved religious and the unsaved brought up in the words wisdom and education system. However, is the same to one group a stumbling block and to the other foolishness.

Scholars and theologians can explain it more in detail than I will attempt here.

Matthew was written by a tax collector who was Jewish. So he did not write chronologically. Matthew like a mathematician would do he grouped and columnized his message. Matthew is written in 5 or 6 topics all of which Matthew used as evidence to point that Jesus was in fact the Christ or the promised messiah.

Luke wrote as a doctor and he is chronological.

Take chapter one of each book and it shows from the start how they wrote. Matthew goes back to Christ being the seed of Abraham and of David. Then he goes into the birth of Christ.

Luke starts with, It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

He is writing chronologically so he goes into the message of John the Baptist and then the message of Christ then the birth of John and then the birth of Christ.

So some of Matthew 24 is not chronological. Which by that I mean that is not when Christ gave that particular message. Because Matthews focus is on showing the Jews that Jesus was the Christ and how it related to old testament scriptures and prophecies.

Whereas Luke recorded chronologically the messages. So for example the parts of in the days of Noah. Matthew places that as part of the topic because he is making a argument for Jesus is the Christ and it relates the the authority and the topical argument as it relates to the second coming.

Luke you can find the same message in Luke 17 for that part because Luke is writing chronologically as to when that message was given.

However, the message is the same and the place the same. In Luke 17 the disciples ask where Lord and he says where the body is there will be the eagles gathered. Matthew 24 records the same message but again is not chronological as in Christ had said that message prior but Matthew is emphasizing the topic and keeping it grouped.

Matthew records the message as where the carcass is there will be the eagles gathered. Then after that then says immediately after the tribulation of those days.

Both are the same message but expressed differently. The Jews are gonna know that from the old testament that is Ezekiel 39 to which the Lord proclaims how the birds would gather and eat the flesh of mighty men.

These versus fall chronologically in Revelation 19:17-18, And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

So it is not the rapture in Matthew 24, it is the second coming and the gathering back to Israel where the bodies will be and the eagles gathered to feast.

So the message is always the same but the obstacles different in that we preach Christ crucified but one will seek a sign and another wisdom, so to one a stumbling block and to the other foolishness.

Why we ourselves have to become all things to all men because the obstacles will be different. So anyway the difference in the gospels is the audience and how one is themed or grouped and the other written chronologically for that audience.

Anyway check out what scholars and theologians have to say as I am just hitting on bits and paraphrasing whereas they will go into more detail as to how the gospels were written and how it was messaged for the audience.

So your deal fails.

Nobody to rapture after tbe trib.

Comical

Do you meaning nobody to catch up after seven plagues?

Yes.

If all believers are martyred, there is no rapture of the living.

I'm afraid there are not as many willing to martyred as you think.......................
but who knows the revolution will be as what it is.
I meaning if God force humankind as what revolution says , who will not believe in God ?