How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

The sickle is an instrument being used in a visionary scenario - the interpretation of which must be based on the context of that visionary scenario.

WOW WOW WOWZA Brother - You never read the Gospel of Matthew???

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 19 has Jesus coming post wrath on horses

Not in the trib

The 144k is symbolic - you can find the literal meaning of the 144k in Gospel of John, Romans, Galatians, I Peter, James and Genesis

Paul spoke of Jesus' rapture - Jesus spoke of it first...

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.

You are trying to hard - just like the 'pre-trib' people do.

humble reminder:

Whenever you study Revelation, you must always start with an understanding of "what John saw" - you must never try to interpret individual words and/or phrases apart from an understanding of "what John saw" - or you will fall/slip into error.

Correctly applying the 'vision' aspect of Revelation to its interpretation is critical to obtaining a proper understanding of it.

There is the Kingdom of God in heaven ... that's our inheritance and there is the kingdom of God on earth which is yet to come ... that is what the Jews were promised and what they shall get.

"Thy Kingdom come Thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven."

Dear Brother Nehemiah6, the following statement was made by member lamad Post #2,845

lamad said: "This tells us that immediately following the tribulation of those days, Jesus will come. In no way does this prohibit a previous coming. It is merely a statement of fact, He will come after the tribulation. Don't read into a verse what you want it to say!"
"IS this a coming? It tells us it is. But it also says He comes ONLY to the air. One would have to add to scripture to declare that after He stops in the air, He then comes down to the ground."

No, the tool he uses is one that is specially made to harvest grapes safely. The grapes are safe and unharmed.

The second harvest is where grapes suffer harm:

Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Guess who trods those grapes?

Rev_19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Jesus!

Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

This is the rapture.

Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress , even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

This is Armageddon and the wrath of God.

revelation 14 :14 is not the rapture. For one ,the Rapture is the barley Harvest not the Grape Harvest , and there is no sickle in the rapture.
The rapture is the groom gathering His bride.

If you guys frame everything outside the bride /groom dynamic , things become abstract.

Purpose is almost never revealed in other rapture models.

Do you guys know the purpose of the rapture?
The purpose if the trib?
The purpose of the AC?

1) I see almost nobody incorporating the bride and groom. ( a sure pathway for missing any hope to unpack the rapture and surrounding components.)
2) Almost nobody aware that the trib is Jacobs trouble....the time of gentiles OVER, ( THE CHURCH) ,the bride taken and in heaven ,AS JESUS DECLARED, and the beginning of the destruction of the earth and its inhabitants.

3) almost nobody here addresses the PURPOSE of the antichrist.
a) he is obsessed with killing christians....and....
b) He masquerades as the messiah...coming to help the world.
c) he is obsessed with the jews and perverting everything about them. As well as their destruction

Purpose left out is the incubator for mans formulas

We know there is a rapture...which begins the tribulation period. Many consider this to be Christ's 2nd coming....I am not convinced.
...in the twinkling of an eye is a very short period of time for Christ to appear and be gone.........scripture leads us in that direction however.......
When Christ appears with His armies later in the trib. period.......is the 2nd advent ....it appears.

This tells us that immediately following the tribulation of those days, Jesus will come. In no way does this prohibit a previous coming. It is merely a statement of fact, He will come after the tribulation. Don't read into a verse what you want it to say!

1 Thes. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

IS this a coming? It tells us it is. But it also says He comes ONLY to the air. One would have to add to scripture to declare that after He stops in the air, He then comes down to the ground.

Man loves the methodology of 'serpent twisting ' of scripture.

God hates it, and so do i.
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

the LORD says: "But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

No where in Scripture can you find the LORD or the Apostles saying there is more then one return -the Coming of Christ.

Again, to say other then the words of the LORD and the Apostles is the working of the evil one in your heart.

When you recognize this, the Lord will grant you grace to turn away from it.

Never assume that i lack understanding from the Holy Spirit on such things as His Coming and TRUTH.
To hurl insults because you cannot prove from scripture your position is clear immaturity.

The Apostles spoke the same singular Coming of the LORD in their writings - there was never a confusing statement or multiple Returns/Comings of the LORD. Always, just one - His Coming.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who are asleep(the spirits of the dead in Christ)

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first. = Revelation 20 the FIRST Resurrection

After that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

serpent twisting of scripture: "multiple returns of Christ and multiple resurrections and pre-trib rapture before the resurrection"

Oh, and i am still waiting for the Scripture from you that says: 'Christ is coming for His Church BEFORE the Tribulation'
as you claim - now PROVE it and enough of your silly talk.

Not just silly but corrupt when they say "did JESUS really say HE is Coming after the Tribulation."

Oh wait, that lie is now exposed, so you say: "this does not prevent the Lord from coming before that".

That satement you made a number of times reveals a proud heart, lack of the fear of God, and far far worse then silliness.

i lack understanding in Revelation???

Do you know that Revelation repeats Itself throughout by saying the same thing in different ways.

There can be no doubt that in His Armageddon coming, Rev. 19, He comes to the ground to the Battle of Armageddon. He also comes riding a white horse. The armies of heaven come with Him. One can find NONE of this in His 1 Thes. coming: there He stops in a cloud and calls up the church. There is no resurrection found in the Matthew 24 gathering.

Paul's rapture, if we study 1 Thes. 4 & 5, comes before the Day and before wrath. Since the Day of the Lord begins in Rev. chapter 6, then the rapture must come before the Day starts because that is the Day of His wrath.

Paul tells us a SUDDENLY is coming: this series of events will start with SUDDENLY the dead in Christ flying up out of their graves. WHEN? When people are thinking and saying "peace and safety." How can ANYONE imagine people saying peace and safety after the days of GT?

A moment after the dead in Christ rise, then Paul tells us that two different groups of people get two very different results:
1. Those that are alive and in Christ get salvation: they are caught up to join the dead in Christ.
2. All those who are left behind fact Paul's "sudden destruction."

Paul hints strongly that the sudden destruction is the start of God's wrath and the start of the Day of the Lord.

WHERE do we find the start of God's wrath in Revelation? In chapter 19? NO! We find the start of the Day of His wrath at the 6th seal in chapter 6 of Revelation.

Prewrath believers are then forces to move the 6th seal to align with Rev. 19! How amazing is that?

ANY THEORY that must rearrange John's God Given chronology is immediately suspect and will certainly be proven wrong.

just the jews...separate......r u sure about that?

.....Our father who art in heaven.....thy kingdom comes thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven....

...no one has ever seen God and if they did they must surely die...

...the earth will be cleansed with fire.....

All this is only your opinion.

You have formed a doctrine from one, isolated verse. Did you check all end time passages to see if your theory would fit other scriptures? One can only IMAGINE the gathering in Matthew 24 is Paul's rapture. It cannot be proven to be because it is not and cannot be.

Now you have to prove with scripture that this gathering is Paul's rapture gathering. No one as yet has ever been able to prove this with scripture. It is certainly a gathering, and it is certainly after the trib. But it is NOT Paul's gathering. His gathering comes before the Day of the Lord as per 1 Thes. 4 & 5.

When forming doctrine of end times, a theory must agree with ALL end times scriptures. One should never form doctrine from an isolated verse.

Now I KNOW you have a lack of understanding in Revelation.

My axiom on Revelation:

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology to fit, is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.