How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

And I see that Itheophilus agrees with you, both of you having undoubtedly not watched either video--it is plain by testing scripture against scripture that it is impossible to go to heaven before Christ comes* to gather the elect at His second coming at which time immediately following is the destruction of the present heavens and the earth. Scripture is clear on this. I'm sorry to say it, but you are the ones deceived. I saw this quote on the forum and I feel it is quite applicable in this case:

A Man Convinced Against His Will Is Of The Same Opinion Still - No one wants to be wrong, and we will defend our “truth” even when THEE Truth is staring us in the face. I’ve heard people say, “My Church believed it this way, bible or no bible, it’s the truth.“

*And what's the point if all the dead are already in heaven--how are they rising from their sleep if they're already there and how did they get in without their immortal bodies?

FIRST = Good Morning Dear Sister in Christ and Peace and Blessing upon all of us who call upon the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ - Amen.

i watched the first video which was plenty of info.

Where does Scripture say the Saints who died are presently? = Follow the Word of God and not of men.

Ok... I had someone from this site say for me to back off, so I will leave you at rest..........

Here I can agree with you 100%. Why is it pretribbers lay aside good bible exegesis here and imagine (that is all it is: imagination) that the intent of the Holy Spirit when He had John write this passage was the rapture of the church shrouded with JOHN being caught up. WHEN was John caught up? Perhaps around 95 AD. Sorry folks, no rapture then. Second, no wrath starts immediately after 4:1, but Paul is clear that the rapture will trigger the start of the Day of the Lord, and God's wrath.

WHERE then is the rapture to be found in Revelation? John did not see the rapture so did not write of it. But God in His wisdom allowed John to see the raptured church just after the rapture, as the great crowd too large to number in chapter 7. However, John gave us enough hints that we can know where the rapture will take place. Seal 5 is for church age martyrs, and people are still being added to that number. But sometime in our near future, the rapture will end the church age and some martyr will end up being the LAST martyr and the number will be complete. Paul is clear that the Day of the Lord will follow the rapture, as back to back events with no time between: the age of grace will end SUDDENLY when the dead in Christ fly up out of their graves. The next moment in time will start the Day of the Lord.

Therefore, the rapture will be AFTER the final martyr at the 5th seal, and BEFORE wrath starts at the 6th seal. John then saw the raptured church in heaven and wrote of it in the next chapter.

Your fine with me, i like your posts except for adding pre-trib, other then that all is Good.

Were you threatened? or did they tell you that your wasting your time trying to convince pre-trib exists in Scripture?

What does the WORD say about this?

Of course you are right that Jesus comes at the rapture. Paul wrote "unto the coming of the lord." Where you miss it is WHEN? Paul tells us when in chapter 5: the rapture will come just before the day of the Lord and the start of God's wrath. It is going to be church age, and one instant later, Day of the Lord - no time between except for the moments of the rapture.

WHERE do we find the start of the Day of the Lord in Revelation? In chapter 19 - the chapter of His coming to Armageddon? NO! We find the DAY beginning at the 6th seal in chapter 6. The truth of scripture is that every event from chapter 7 to chapter 18 will take place after the rapture and before Armageddon.

I hope you understand, man is a SPIRIT BEING created to live forever (make after God's image who is a Spirit) and can certainly be escorted to heaven after separation from their physical body. Think of it: all the saints of the OT and now billions from the NT are already there, awaiting the time of their resurrection. But they are NOT complete yet: they await their resurrection body. God is going to reform that body from the dust it is turned into, and then change it to a resurrection body and the spirits will then join again with that body they were separated from at death. AT that moment DEATH will be defeated for them. They will live as long as God lives.

Paul TELLS US this: "absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

Hello: The last one I gave you showing the seven golden lampstands path to the throne, I posted in on lets say 20 different threads; I guess it raised some eyebrows and there was two complains from senior members... Nevertheless I have reach my goal here and will respectfully bow out. All the best!!

Here is what the Golden Lamp confirms to us: Ephesians 2

But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses.
It is by grace you have been saved!
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

The churches/Saints are not literal lampstands in Heaven.

Jesus also said to them, “Does anyone bring in a lamp to put it under a basket or under a bed? Doesn’t he set it on a stand? For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be brought to light.

If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”



We who are alive in Christ right now are on earth in physical decaying bodies YET our spirits are joined to the LORD so that we can be where HE is no = IN SPIRIT and IN TRUTH.

Read John ch14 then ch17 the 20:15-17 then Acts ch1 -ch2

PEACE

Laura, your "isolation of scripture" is redundant and should only be used where an isolation of Scripture seems to be disagreeing with the completed View of Scripture.

What is truly a Red Flag is the moment you hear someone say, as in the man in the video, "Did God really say...."

That, my Dear Sister is your Red Flag = PEACE

I wore out lets say six or seven very high quality bibles over the years and it wasn't until I was older that I was seeing these things... I've been a full time self supported missionary in Pakistan and Mexico for the last 22 years. I have absolutely no fear of death or a love for the present, even though I have an amazing wife (Pakistani) but we are looking forward to being home with the Lord...

God has greatly Blessed you Brother - HalleluYah and Amen

I actually sensed the Love of God coming thru you in your posts - Thank You LORD for my Brother, FRIEND

Exactly; it’s truly sad, @Laura798

“Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God.”—Hebrews 6:1

Again you are isolating one thing he said and ignoring the numerous verses he quoted that disprove your false doctrine ANDpagan myth that believers go to heaven and circumvent the resurrection at Christs second coming. Amazing that with all the proof you are cult like in choosing your false beliefs over Gods word.

Please dont respond without reading my other posts that address this misunderstanding of scripture—isolating verses always to leads to false doctrine. No one seems to want to study scripture for themselves

Do you deny that the Wall of Partition was removed for His Elect? Eph ch2 Matt 7:49-54

Do you deny that the Blood of Christ is all sufficient for our being Placed and Seated in Christ? Eph ch2

Do you deny that "what God has joined together no man shall separate"? Mark 10:9

Do you deny that Blood Washed Saints have Entrance into the Holiest of Holies? Hebrews ch4

Do you deny that we cannot be separated from the Love of our Savior Jesus Christ? Romans 8:31-39

Do you deny that Christ has shown us the Way Home? John ch 14

Do you deny that HE gives us the Holy Spirit that will never leave us? John ch14

Do you deny that the LORD's Prayer has been answered? John ch 17

If you deny any of these you deny them all.

PEACE

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. - Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV)

All others will receive eternal life!

During the Millennium, which begins when we are all changed in the twinkling of an eye at the 7th Trump, those overcomers who have taken part in the First Resurrection will be priests (teachers) with Jesus. Those who never had a chance to hear the Truth of God’s Word will have the opportunity to hear it at this time. At the end of the Millennium, Satan will be loosed for a short season, and he will be out again to deceive those he can. (There can be no reason for the Millennium to take place at all except for God to separate (with the help of those of us who were part of the First Resurrection) the persons who will perish at the Great White Throne Judgement from those who will receive eternal life at that time because they did not follow Satan when he was loosed for that short season and were not deceived (This is the Second Resurrection. The fact that the Bible calls one the First Resurrection indicates there is to be a Second Resurrection). Makes sense!

No saints are returning at the rapture.
Saints are returning with Christ at the 2nd advent to fight the great battle of Armageddon.