The Gun Thread

America is actually a safer nation than most, the media adverse report and it affects the easily duped and swayed.

I think you are right, in that we have knife crime. However, we don't have gun crime to anything like the extent of the USA. Guns are a force multiplier, and you can kill a lot more people, a lot more quickly, and at greater range with a gun than with a knife.

Best wishes, 2RM.

True, mostly. Both are force multipliers. And you can kill a lot of people with a knife before being taken down as well- provided no one there has a gun, of course.

That said, I used to train for these scenarios. In close I'd rather have a knife. It cuts continually in any direction. I don't even have to move it if my opponent moves against it. It penetrates or slices effectively no matter who provides the relative movement. A gun on the other hand only fires once and in only one direction per trigger pull IF the mechanism functions correctly. In close the actions of either a revolver or semi-auto may be effected by contact with either combatant. The guy with the gun just got cut ... .

You can train for those contingencies, but you can never 100% overcome them.

Just so. But for me the issue for a Christian is, when are we going to stop manufacturing weaponry, and turn our swords into plough-shares?

Best wishes, 2RM.

It is violence commited by a demonically influenced person, not the inanimate object, the devil would have the easily duped and swayed believe it is the inanimate object.

When we walk in obedience to His word and not "play church" as over 90% of people who claim to be Christian now do.

Luke 22:36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

As soon as we are done using them for Godly purposes. Things like protecting our families, protecting our freedoms, or just something that we can get together as believers, possibly across denominational lines or as a men's activity (or women's- many of them are catching on to the joys of shooting). It can also be an outreach, especially to young men and boys. My black powder rifles especially work well for this, as the kick is minimal, but the flash, "whoom!" and smoke are like a magnet drawing them over.

Isaiah 2:2,4 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. ... And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

That is a latter days prophecy for the millennium. Until then there will be "wars and rumors of war (Mat 24:6). So I suppose the correct answer is when I've seen the Christ coming in the clouds and my bones are renewed and I've risen to meet Jesus I'll start making plowshares instead of buying guns.

Most gun crime is committed in areas where guns are heavily restricted, but people who are part of criminal gangs. Technology multiplies effort, the problem is the sinful people not the machinery.

I'm hoping there is no primer or ammo shortage in heaven.

Can we agree on this, then? That some people are bad, to be sure. But without the weapon, they wouldn't have the ability to express that badness to anything like the same extent?

Best wishes, 2RM.

The ability for a physically weak person to exert lethal force rapidly has saved many lives. Again, technology multiplies effort. I don't want to get into a theological discussion but I believe defense of self and the lives of other people is entirely legitimate, and thus means amplifying it are legitimate. Unregenerate criminals are going to continue their predatory behavior no matter what, and there are far more people who defend themselves than go on shooting rampages. As long as people are not following God it doesn't matter what they have or don't, their behavior will be turned to all manner of wickedness.

So, you wouldn't be in favour of turning the other cheek, then? I think, for my part, I would rather die than kill.

Best wishes, 2RM

It's not a suicide pact. A man is ordained by God to protect his family, as a properly constituted civil magistrate is to his. We shouldn't show malevolence towards other, but there are no 'purely spiritual brothers', except in Heaven. The Earth belongs to God and we are to obey his Commandments. Rulers are instituted by God to enforce these and in a civil capacity a man is deputized to do the same, whether defending against robbers, invaders or killers of any description.
We don't attack people as Christians but that does not relieve us from the duty of maintaining civil order and enforcing the law, nor the right to do so in place of a proper magistrate when we're in an emergency. It is our responsibility to evangelize and bring everything into obedience with God. Of course this is impossible without the Grace of the Holy Spirit and the change in the hearts of men.
You certainly shouldn't kill someone if it can reasonably be avoided but murder is not allowed and self defense is not murder, it's a exigent enforcement of civil penalties for killers and the main force of the civil magistrate in defending property and persons.

I have children and if someone comes in here looking for them, no, I am not going to prefer to die than kill. I will not hesitate to use our guns and I know how to.

Actually they would have more power. Gangs come together because there is power in numbers. Without the "force multipliers" out there in our cities like private gun ownership, the gangs would have free rein. And the police, impotent to do more than clean up after the fact before are now in many places even weaker; hamstrung by a hateful administration. And what this admin wants most is our guns, of course.

The discourse in which Jesus said to "turn the other cheek" talked about someone taking you tunic, slapping you, or robing you. It said nothing in the whole chapter about letting someone kill you or harm your family.

This is what I mean when I talk about bad doctrine based on misreading scripture.

Yep! It has saved mine, having a gun. Other times it could have got me into trouble, having either a gun or a knife. But since I know how to use them responsibly and how not to act pridefully (things Christians should know) I didn't. I've had to swallow my pride and just walk away, because just being armed has already upped the ante. I always tell people who want to get a firearm they do not solve all your problems. They actually create more for you. Pull a weapon too soon in an altercation and you become the aggressor in the eys of the law. At the very least you just escalated the situation. Pull it too late (and too soon usually would have been the right time), you may get the weapon taken and used on you. Having a gun means training with it- a lot of training. Otherwise all you have is a liability. And it's a responsibility. You are responsible for every bullet that comes out of your gun, so even if you are cleared criminally and a bystander was hurt you could face civil penalties. Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should have a gun. But everyone should train in responsible and effective use of the guns they have.

Yes. I don't have a wife or children. If I did, I think I would want to defend them. But the best way to do that, it seems to me, would be to live in a society devoid of guns.

Best wishes, 2RM.

LOL, you are incorrigible, mate! I wish you luck with that. But my wife's father escaped Germany where there were no guns except in the hands of Nazis. He went to the UK, and she was born in Derbyshire. So I talk to people there, and I've heard the stories from some. It's not all that safe in many places. But most of them still think like you. Britain has a "ban in peace beg in war" attitude towards guns. Frankly, if I were on an island with nations I'd traditionally been at war with all around I'd want to be like the Swiss and make everyone of military age keep a gun in their home. The island would be far safer with enemies knowing every male and quite a few females had a gun at home, ready to go.

Indeed. But we have revised our ideas of God from the warrior king of a bronze age tribe in line with the revelations of Christ, who is not known as the 'Prince of Peace' for nothing.

Best wishes, 2RM.

This is an example of how the U.K. has been given over to unbiblical faith.

I dare say. I find some things in the Bible I cannot in conscience and for philosophical consistency's sake, agree with. But nevertheless, I think the Gospels to be mainly true, and on these I base my faith.

Best wishes, 2RM.