One taken,one left. The rapture.

Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.
12Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea!
For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

Choose your wrath

I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and [g]behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the [h]moon became like blood. 13And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15And the kings of the earth, the great men, [j]the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

When I was first saved i enjoyed listening to McArthur.

i still pray for John

Well since it was the Lord Jesus Christ who first presented the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, there is no need to give anyone else the credit. People love dumping on Darby and Scofield, but they were simply bringing out what was already in Scripture, and even some of the Early Church Fathers had seen this. And amazingly even Jesuit Francisco Ribera was able to discern this! He also invalidated the nonsense that the papacy is the Antichrist.

Now why does the Rapture have to be "secret" as relates to the unbelieving world?
1. The Resurrection/Rapture is for the Church, not for the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked.
2. Christ said that He would come "like a thief in the night" -- unannounced and unexpected.
3. Christ will come "in the air" momentarily, since the Resurrection/Rapture is "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye".
4. Since the world does not believe in the Rapture, the world is excluded from even seeing it.

Nope, when he returns, all the world will see. He comes surprisingly "like a thief in the night" because you fools are all following those false prophets and looking for him in the desert or in secret closets.

Why would we be doing that when Scripture clearly states we'll be caught up TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR where He'll BE at the time (and there is no requirement at all to be "LOOKING")

Come on, that is the Lord descending in the air, not us! “This same Jesus ... will so come in like manner as you saw him go into heaven.”

Which passage are you interpreting this to be out of?

What in the world???
I must have had my phone on in my pocket.

Lol

Show me where anyone but postribs is selling that.

You cant.

Yep.
Elijah seen
Enoch seen
The baby Jesus seen
The 2 witnesses seen
1 thes 4 is open, seen, and not secret.

Postribs even get that wrong.

Postribbers selling it.
Nobody else.

Uh ... like, every pastor in America? All have drunken the same Kool Aid in their seminary?

Interesting postribber dilemma, is that in the coming on white horses,it is a local event.

The rapture is world wide.
Hence ;
"2 in a bed, one taken.... ( at night).
2 at a mill, working, one taken.... (during daytime)

Postrib dilemma.
Rev 19, saints are already in heaven on white horses during the trib

Pretribber here.
It is your camp that parks there for no reason.
It is your invention ,most likely, since you guys do not bring anything to the table pointing to a postrib rapture.
So " secret rapture", that does not exist in any outlines here, except yours, helps authenticate the pretrib rapture ,since your "side show" has no impact or meaning.

It is you presenting it over and over.

You are batting the air everytime you do it.

Ok we get it.

Your pet doctrine is secret rapture.

We get it.!
Now make a sentence leaving that out.
Start contributing instead of attacking.

Drop the Alinsky act, man. That's you pretribber's pet doctrine. Take the mud for yourself, don't throw it at me.

Well, I wasn't actually speaking to THAT point (and as you may recall, as I've said in the past, I do not believe "our Rapture" will necessarily be a "VISIBLE" event [at least not to EVERYONE], but will more resemble the "pattern" I had pointed out... but I won't go into all that AGAIN here).

I will say (again), though, that Paul (in his TWO CHPTS of 2Th1 & 2) is telling of the TWO opposite "beliefs" people WILL be coming to (FOLLOWING "our Rapture"), when they are IN THE TRIB YEARS.

2Th2:10-12 tells of ONE of those two [opposite] "beliefs" people will be coming to in those years FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (when they are IN THE TRIB YEARS),

... and the reasonable thing (as I see it) for us to conclude about how they can even "believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" (aside from the fact that "GOD SHALL SEND TO THEM strong delusion SO THAT..."), yet others will be coming to the OPPOSITE (i.e. TRUE / RIGHT / CORRECT) "belief," is because (at the very LEAST) the ones to whom "God SHALL SEND TO THEM strong delusion SO THAT..." will NOT have "visibly SEEN" anyone having just been "raptured [/caught up / snatched]" when it will have [already] occurred (just like Jesus' FIRST ascension ON His RESURRECTION DAY / ON "FIRSTFRUIT" Lev23:10-12 [which NO ONE SAW, but only "TOLD" (by WORD)]--some "40 DAYS" prior to His later "VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1),

...thus (their NOT having "SEEN" it / "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]") they will find it EASY and REASONABLE / SENSIBLE to "believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI," which I've stated before will very likely be based on "religious people's explanation [tho being themselves "unsaved / lost" persons or else they would have been "caught up" too]" of what just happened, and even using the texts of Scripture [misapplied and incorrectly used] to "show [/ prove to]" ppl just "how RIGHT they are" (about it)... but will be completely playing into "the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI"




Wait a second. You mean, you believe "baby Jesus" was RAPTURED / CAUGHT UP / SNATCHED [IN THE AIR], and that other people "SAW" this HAPPEN??

Where in Scripture do you find THIS thing occurring? To be straight-up honest with you, I do not see Scripture telling of such a thing. = )

And to be honest, I'm not seeing that in the text either. It just doesn't make sense for the text to say (in the BOLD):

"5By faith Enoch was taken up so that he did not see death: “ He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. "

... if it were the case that he was "SEEN" being taken up.

Nowhere does any text state that he WAS seen by others, at [/during] that point.




"By faith Enoch was translated not to see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him up. For before the translation, he was commended to have pleased God. "



[I *do* see "ENOCH" as a TYPE of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"... "ONE MAN"]

When he was "taken", it was like centuries ago before the Flood! He's no model for pre-trib rapture if you do the math.

^ @Carry_Your_Name , I am not one who insists that "TYPES" are intended to match in every nitty-gritty detail... but there is usually something (at least one thing) significant about it [/ a "type"] that makes it so.







["... he [ONE MAN] was not found, because God had taken him up..."]



Also, the name "ENOCH" can be traced back to / somewhat connected to the following definition / s :


1 train, train up a (the) youth (לַנַּעַר) Proverbs 22:6 (compare Late Hebrew חִנּוּךְ).

2 dedicate, of formal opening of a new house Deuteronomy 20:5 (twice in verse); dedicate, consecrate temple 1 Kings 8:63 2Chronicles 7:5 (all followed by accusative)