One taken,one left. The rapture.

1 thes 4 is vivid.

mat 25. ( the virgins gathered) is even more vivid.

mat 24 is vivid and clear starting in vs 36 on down.

this part ?

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

yeah it’s pretty clear when Jesus returns at the end of world when the dead are raised up

and this part ?

“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:31, 34-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

yeah a clear picture of judgement after Jesus returns

And this part ?

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I agree those are all clear and cohesive

are you stuck on this part by chance ?

“All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:8-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how is he foretelling this and her the church isn’t going to be there to fulfill it ? All he’s saying there is forewarning the church then and today of the tribulation we will surely face in this world the only thing he says about being caught he up and gathered is that after he returns he’ll gather those from earth and heaven who believe

so when will he return in your view? Before the end or Will his coming cause the end ?

this part ?

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

yeah it’s pretty clear when Jesus returns at the end of world when the dead are raised up

and this part ?

“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:31, 34-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

yeah a clear picture of judgement after Jesus returns

And this part ?

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I agree those are all clear and cohesive

are you stuck on this part by chance ?

“All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:8-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how is he foretelling this and her the church isn’t going to be there to fulfill it ? All he’s saying there is forewarning the church then and today of the tribulation we will surely face in this world the only thing he says about being caught he up and gathered is that after he returns he’ll gather those from earth and heaven who believe

so when will he return in your view? Before the end or Will his coming cause the end ?

“NOTE the omissions of the pretrib rapture verses by postribbers.”

which ones ? I’ve never read one please share those rather than insisting people are rejecting them which verses are you taking about ?

No. The "coming of the Lord" refers specifically to His Second Coming, just as Heb 9:28, which you quoted above, says.

At the Second coming, there will be the single resurrection of all believers (1 Cor 15:23) and Rev 20:4,5 SAYS that is the FIRST resurrection, which includes Tribulation martyrs, showing this FIRST resurrection to be the resurrection of the saved. ALL the saved.

This Second coming will end the Tribulation and then the King of kings will set up His Millennial Kingdom on earth, where ALL glorified believers will serve/reign with Him. Depending on their evaluation at the Bema (2 Cor 5:10).

It is AFTER the Millennial Reign that ALL unbelievers will be resurrected (minus glorified bodies) to appear at the GWT judgment, and after their evaluation, be cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:11-15

Your ENTIRE DEAL IS OMISSION.
YOU ARE IN DENIAL.
YOU just demonstrated an orchestrated methodology of OMISSION

IT IS FLAT OUT COMICAL.

NOTE the omissions of the pretrib rapture verses by postribbers.
It is appalling.
Comical actually.

Then their cunning tactics.
" show me a verse saying God takes believers to heaven"

I stick their noses in it.
They deny it.
Ironically there is NO VERSE in the bible....NOT ONE... pointing to a postrib rapture.

I left nothing out of anything. The scriptures teach about the coming of the Lord; singular, hence the “the coming” of the Lord.

No such phrase is found in the Bible as “the comings” of the Lord.


so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


The coming of the Lord refers to His return from heaven to earth, in which He appears and is seen by every eye. He gathers His people at the resurrection and rapture, so that they are with Him in the clouds, and then He destroys the wicked who are left on earth.


Coming (noun) — Parousia Strong’s # G3952

1. presence
2. the coming, arrival, advent
   1. the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

This is what the Bible teaches. The coming of the Lord is associated with the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture, in which we are gathered together unto the Lord.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17





Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-8



But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Thessalonians 15:20-23



“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31

• they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.
Mark 13:24-27

• Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

The resurrection and rapture, where we are gathered together occurs at His coming.







JPT

Read Foxes book of martyrs.
The church has been through horrific persecution

Show me 1 postrib rapture verse.
Just one against my 10.
As of today, it is 10 to zero against a postrib rapture.

1 thes 4 is vivid.

Only the dead in christ resurrect.

In acts one the angels say Jesus returns "IN LIKE MANNER".

i have posted them many times

Many, many, many times

Mat 24 the while second half is DEVOTED TO another coming

Completely different to the one after the gt.

But omit it.
Go ahead.

There are lots of references to the coming of the Lord in the OT that applied to both his first and second coming. Those prophesies had a partial fulfilment and have more to come.

Since that is so, then it is not beyond reason to expect that his second coming will be multifaceted as well.

"before the flood" no one "perished" or was "DESTROYED [G622] [ALL]"


In the Noah illustration (Jesus is using), the "one taken" was [and will be] "taken away IN JUDGMENT"... and the other "left" was [and will be] "left on the earth [in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children... in order to "[actively] FILL [FILLED] the [whole] earth" Dan2:35c (future) / Gen9:1 (past) / Matt24&Lk17 (future, using these "past" examples) ["the number of whom is at the sand of the sea" Rev20:8 in the earthly MK age, by the END of it]


...but ^ what was stated to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [US] (to/for/about whom the "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" SOLELY pertains, NOT to all other "saints" of all OTHER time periods), this [is said, instead]:

"...that, WHETHER WE MIGHT WATCH [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier] *OR* WHETHER WE MIGHT SLEEP [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier (NOT he "sleep" word meaning "sleep IN DEATH" that the PREVIOUS CHPT used!! NO!)], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] Him."



Indeed there are distinctions that you are completely disregarding, in your quest to cling to your (incorrect) idea that the text sates, "before the flood they [Noah and crew] WERE TAKEN AWAY [i.e. like a "rapture"]"... which is NOT what the text is actually conveying, but rather what "your big idea" is IMPOSING upon the text.



I know... you love me.






[again, for the readers: I do not believe the "Noah" and "Lot" examples are illustrating / representing "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"... but persons ('saints') who will be preserved THROUGH the tribulation period, and who will remain on the earth (i.e. be the ones "left") at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth, TO ENTER (as the "BLESSED") the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES (capable of reproducing / bearing children--the ONLY ones at that point who will have that capacity--the "resurrected saints" will NOT have that capacity, though they will also be [resurrected IN TIME FOR to be also] present to enjoy the MK age)... and due to the "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" that occurs then, NO "UNBELIEVERS" will be "BLESSED" to ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... however, the children [/grandchildren, etc] born to them will not be "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS" and it is THESE ONLY who will be susceptible to "death" in the MK age, which will be MUCH MORE RARE and reserved ONLY for the rebellious (in the MK age)]

The partial fulfillment was His first and His second will fulfill the prophesies.
First happened, once not many times.
Second happens once, not many times.
His first coming was in an instant and so will His second.

The only one that had any different dynamic pre flood was noah.
He went into the ark. Ark is a type of heaven.
Before the flood , we have:
One group had normal life
One group entered the ark.
Both groups get " taken away" in the flood.
( Noah to the sky, the others to "trying to survive").
There is zero there of "wicked taken first".
Same in the pretrib rapture.

That's BESIDE the point (the point being discussed in THAT post that you quoted, didn't "have to do" with the 70ad events which is recorded ONLY in the Lk21:12-24a,b SECTION of the Olivet Discourse, where v.12 says, "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE [all these beginning of birth pangs--that Matthew 24:4 STARTS OFF with]" (i.e. the SEALS at the START of the far-future TRIB YRS)... v.12 "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE," the events of 70ad must transpire BEFORE THOSE.

However, what was being discussed in THAT post (that you'd quoted), we were discussing the "eschatological" aspects (of the questions they'd posed), which have to do with (the parts regarding) "of THY COMING and of the END [SINGULAR] of the AGE [SINGULAR]" (what we know of as the eschatological matters--i.e. the far-future events, not the near-future events having to do with "70ad events" [recorded only in His response found in the LUKE 21:12-24a,b SECTION I just mentioned]; whereas Matt24:4 STARTS OFF with the "far-future" aspects / of His overall response; "the beginning of birth PANGS" / "SEALS" are future to "our Rapture," even... They are what "kick off" the TRIB yrs])

Read Foxes book of martyrs.
The church has been through horrific persecution

Show me 1 postrib rapture verse.
Just one against my 10.
As of today, it is 10 to zero against a postrib rapture.

There are lots of references to the coming of the Lord in the OT that applied to both his first and second coming. Those prophesies had a partial fulfilment and have more to come.

Since that is so, then it is not beyond reason to expect that his second coming will be multifaceted as well.