An Analysis on the 144,000 in Revelation

Anyone who has the Holy Spirit is married to Him.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Joseph interpretting dreams disproves the premise that prophecy can't be symbolic (see Gen 39 & 40).

Are you trying to say that the symbolism in Revelation is not symbolism by the Prophetic word of Christ?

You ABSOLUTELY 100% CORRECT

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit as Promised by the LORD in Acts ch1 is the Marriage Certificate and when HE accepts you the Holy Spirit makes you His Bride = with Wedding GIFTS.

If this is what that post made you think, then really no more to say than OK is there? Do you really care about my personal opinions on these questions you asked, as there are no Scriptures to put forth to prove them? I could give my opinions but I don't think they have any meaning as far as Gods Truth is concerned here.

How do you know that the promise wasn't talking about Christ's nation rather than a nation before Christ? Nothing in that says the nation was Israel.


Only those in Christ are saved.

That's not what Gal 3 says.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

I asked you the question on whether 100% of the seed needs to be in the land in order to fulfil the land promise? (The dead included). If your answer is "no" then it follows that a Christian ownership of the land fulfils that promise even if you think the seed is more than Christ (which it isn't).

ALL these Scripture declare ONE SINGLE COMING/APPEARING = His Second Coming

His Second APPEARING is NOT in spirit or in a vision or dream = It is HIS Literal Appearing as it was in His First Coming except now HE returns in HIS Glorified Body.

1 Thess 4:13-18 = He brings the Saints with HIM = Their SPIRITS/SOULS as their bodies are still in the grave.

That is why when HE Comes the Resurrection takes place at His Appearing = never Before.
The RESURRECTION of HIS Saints takes place at HIS COMING and with the TRUMPET of GOD = 1 Thess 4:16 & 1 Cor ch15 & Matt ch24

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel,
and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Therefore encourage one another with these words.

So in disregard to all else other than the chronology issue of an agreed truth based on Scripture and an irrefutable truth that cannot be changed and stands for all time. Being, that the first resurrection precedes the thousand year Kingdom of Christ - or to use my own words as I stated them, "So then, the difficulty, seeing as your answer is already clear - is how can there be a rapture and a meeting the King that precedes the trumpet sound (the last trumpet) that heralds His entry into the seat of His government and His 1000 year Kingdom."

That statement of mine and your statement to upholding Revelation 20:5 are at odds. Yet we are agreed on the claim itself. That is a peculiar fact. So, where am I going then?

To make it easy I'll cite your last post here:

And you are right - I haven't yet started to refute your position because I wanted to uphold your chief premise which is cited to be found in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. and Revelation 1:7 - to cite two examples of the suddenness and certainty that Christ will return and there will be the first resurrection and the rapture of the saints that are alive at His coming. These being often expressed as proved in Matthew 24:31.

The annoying part [I feel sure of it] is that I don't intend to refute your position in the way you appear to require. So here is the annoyance then:

Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz, “Ask a sign of the Lord your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven.” But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, and I will not put the Lord to the test.” And he said, “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanu-el. He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted. The Lord will bring upon you and upon your people and upon your father’s house such days as have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah—the king of Assyria.” In that day the Lord will whistle for the fly which is at the sources of the streams of Egypt, and for the bee which is in the land of Assyria. And they will all come and settle in the steep ravines, and in the clefts of the rocks, and on all the thornbushes, and on all the pastures. In that day the Lord will shave with a razor which is hired beyond the River—with the king of Assyria—the head and the hair of the feet, and it will sweep away the beard also. In that day a man will keep alive a young cow and two sheep; and because of the abundance of milk which they give, he will eat curds; for every one that is left in the land will eat curds and honey. In that day every place where there used to be a thousand vines, worth a thousand shekels of silver, will become briers and thorns. With bow and arrows men will come there, for all the land will be briers and thorns; and as for all the hills which used to be hoed with a hoe, you will not come there for fear of briers and thorns; but they will become a place where cattle are let loose and where sheep tread. Isaiah 7:10-25

I asked about chronology for a reason - not to establish just one fact of Matthew 24 which very clearly speaks about the end of the age.

So, AS we are all very clear about the prophecy of Isaiah to King Ahaz of Judah - because we cite it as the prophecy of the birth of Emmanuel (God is with us) - and yet this prophetic word of Isaiah is also to be fulfilled in the time of Ahaz as a promise of God's support regarding the threat from King Rezin of Syria and King Pekah of Israel. One prophetic word divided into two prophetic events in time and place. Only God can do that - and that is precisely how the book of Revelation is given in the Alpha and Omega designation - in the opening words spoken by John Revelation 1:4, in the words of Christ Revelation 1:8 and by angels Revelation 4:8.

Unless we lay hold of that character then it seems unlikely to myself that neither will we be able to lay hold of plain truth given to us in time and space. What then the purpose of being plain, brother to those brethren who have reduced prophecy to mere symbolism?

Daniel's Vison and Dreams are Prophecy in Symbolic Narrative

Jacobs Dream was also in Symbolic narrative/form.

You started with the opinion that John was not there in a spirit body. I was curious how that works in your interpretation. Scripture points to John being in the future in a spirit body. Am I mistaken?

If John was there only in spirit (with some kind of spirit body) it would follow that a literal 144,000 could also be some kind of time travellers similar to John. That would mean that these individuals weren't necessarily dead or resurrected (unless some other verse said so). There are implications to that.

I am basically just presenting this as a possible interpretation rather than a necessary case. Leaving it at "OK" is itself satisfactory.

Completely agree and since parts of the Revelation imagery comes from books like Daniel it would follow that Revelation also contains prophesy in symbolic narrative.

If prophecy is symbolic it has no purpose

Because it can not be seen by those who are alive,,

Jospeh interpreted internal events.. What he prophesied has and is occuring.

When he uses symbolism to re[resent literal events, such as beasts, it is still literal events taking place

144000 people from 12 tribe's of Israel to represent the church which is one being symbolic is meaningless..

Jh is prophesying what he saw 144000 people from the lost nation of israel who repent and come to christ, and are sealed.

how do I n=know?

becausen when moses led the people out of Israel. He told them they were goin got the and God promised them

When they got there, They were told this is what God promised them

When they got their and were given the law. God told them what would happen if they obeyed and what would happen if they dispbeyed

because prophecy states they will sin and be punished by the destruction of their land, and scattered all over the earth.

All these events took place

Prophecy also states they will repent, and when they do, God will remember the land and remember his promise (this is long after the cross) and when that happens, he will restore them to the land e promised them.


This is not about salvation, This promise has nothing to do with salvation, Your name ing the same mistake th e Jews in Christs day did. You misunderstand the promise. The promise was land, not salvation.

If christians on the land, then why is the land been ruled by Rome, Islam and the enemies of God for the last 2000 years??

I beg of you to look at what your saying, and listen to what people are telling you. What you are saying makes God into a liar, and makes absolutely no sense

And just because it seems desirable to post pre tribulation literature in an academic reference source meaning then I post this link.

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1106&context=pretrib_arch

From www.pre-trib.com

And just to say it - I am not a pre tribulation believer.

YES, the symbolism that Christ speaks in His Revelation pertain to actual LITERAL events/peoples/nations/angels.

I find that based on the Gospel of Christ, Genesis and the Holy Spirit inspired words of the Apostles that the 144K is a symbolic number.

The Born Again Spirit Glorified Nation of ISRAEL is the Body of Christ as the LORD and His Holy Apostles declare to us today.

The earthly nation of Israel will be revived ONLY at His Second Coming and not before = Matt ch23 & Zechariah ch14

The Safest Path is that set forth by the LORD = Deut 4:1-2 , Prov 30:5-6 , Rev 22:18

What have I to do with you?

Are you saved and Born-Again by the Spirit? or are you a pretender?