Christian tithing was started by the Roman Catholic Church

Here's a brief introductory video. The full article is here: https://thetithinghoax.com/when-was-tithing-instituted-in-the-church/


The Catholic Encyclopedia online states:


https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14741b.htm

I always knew tithing had a bad smell.

Giving of your abundance is not corrupt or bad in and of itself..... and supporting ministries or men of God is also biblical..... the corruption and dishonesty comes from man. Things like.... paying to get your loved one out of purgatory...Yikes! ....wrong in so many ways.
God looks on the heart for those who give and they do get blessed.

Tithing did not originate from Christianity or Judaism. It was installed before any Christian or Jew ever lived.

Yes, giving, the key word. Freewill giving, not under compulsion.

When you say "installed" what do you mean exactly? Is there a Biblical record of it being installed?

The New Testament concept of giving was always on a voluntary, freewill basis.

But here is the caveat: Ministers, and deacons, and teachers in the Acts. were not given guaranteed salaries. They either earned their own wages or were given voluntary offerings. If the church begins giving guaranteed salaries to workers, then where does the guaranteed money come from? Pressure, pressure, tithing messages, and gimics, and more pressure?!

2 Corinthians 9:7 ►

For lack of a better term, by "installed", I mean to put into practice.

Depends on what you mean by "record". I recommend you read all my comments on tithing in these two forums:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...vation-for-tithing.204526/page-5#post-4802141
See my comments in posts #84 - 103.

(And this forum)
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/do-you-know-your-scripture.182453/page-6

See my comments in posts #108 - 167



I hope that helps

Good post.

It doesn't help at all, but that's okay.

Whether tithing was practiced before Judaism or Christianity is irrelevant. The best place to find what early Christians believed and practiced is the New Testament. There's no record at all there that tithing was practiced. It first shows up in the records of the RCC in the 6th century.

“Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said
that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common.”
Acts 4:32

“There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands
or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the
apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.” Acts 4:34–35

“And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling
their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.”
Acts 2:44-45


.

When it comes to the topic of tithing (and the Biblical tithe has to do with all sorts of provisions, and certainly not just money), there seem to be two polar extreme points of view, and, in my estimation, the truth lies somewhere between these two polar extremes.

At the one extreme, there is no shortage of charlatans parading around in what professes to be the Christian church who regularly fleece the flock of their monies while promising them huge financial returns in exchange for their tithes. To hear them speak, one would think that God intended the tithe to be some sort of surefire stock market investment that is guaranteed to yield a thirty, sixty, or hundredfold return.

This is definitely not God’s intent for the tithe (I’ll explain his actual intent later), and I would never condone anyone giving even one red cent of their money to any of these charlatans. Their “gospel”, when examined in the light of rightly-divided scripture, is “another gospel” (II Cor. 11:4) which in no way reflects the true gospel of Christ, and to financially support them is to financially support Satan and his ministers (II Cor. 11:13-15).

At the other extreme, there is no shortage of those in what professes to be the Christian church who insist that the tithe was done away with when the new testament/new covenant replaced the old testament/old covenant. In other words, they claim that the tithe only pertained to the Israelites/Jews and the Levitical priesthood which accompanied the Mosaic law.

According to their beliefs, seeing how the Levitical priesthood has long been replaced by the priesthood of Jesus Christ, Christians are allegedly no longer obligated to pay their tithes. Their beliefs, when examined in the light of rightly-divided scripture, are not only found to be as equally false as the first extreme, but also detrimental to true ministers of the gospel of Jesus Christ as I'll explain momentarily.

As I stated earlier, I believe that the truth lies somewhere between these two extremes, and I’ll now give three scriptural reasons why I believe this to be so.

1. The tithe PRECEDED the Levitical priesthood.

If we actually take the time to read our Bibles, then we will come to understand that saints of God tithed LONG BEFORE the Levitical priesthood ever came into effect.

For example, we read:

“And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: and blessed be the most high God, which has delivered your enemies into your hand. AND HE GAVE HIM TITHES OF ALL.” (Gen. 14:18-20)

“And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: and this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: AND OF ALL THAT YOU SHALL GIVE ME I WILL SURELY GIVE THE TENTH UNTO YOU.” (Gen. 28:20-22)

Both Abram/Abraham and Jacob paid tithes BEFORE there was ever a Levite, a Jew, or an Israelite upon the face of this earth and LONG BEFORE the Mosaic law was ever given at Mt. Sinai.

Jacob vowed to “give the tenth” (Gen. 28:22) or to give the tithe BEFORE Levi was born (Gen. 29:34), and the Levitical priesthood sprang forth from the tribe of Levi HUNDREDS OF YEARS LATER.

Furthermore, Jacob vowed to “give the tenth” (Gen. 28:22) or to give the tithe BEFORE Judah was born (Gen. 29:35), and it is from the name Judah that we derive the word “Jew":

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=Jew

Further still, Jacob vowed to “give the tenth” (Gen. 28:22) or to give the tithe BEFORE God changed his name to Israel (Gen. 32:28) and BEFORE his twelve sons became known as “the twelve tribes of Israel” (Gen. 49:28), so there was no such thing as an Israelite in existence at that time.

Additionally, a simple reading of scripture will clearly show that Abram/Abraham (Gen. 25:7) and Jacob (Gen. 49:33) both died HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE the Mosaic law was ever given (Exod. chapter 19 and beyond), so the tithe PRECEDED the Mosaic law as well.

This is reality, friends, and we’d be wise to embrace the same because the only other embraceable option is DELUSION.

2. Although the Levitical priesthood truly has been replaced by the priesthood of Jesus Christ, the Bible teaches that Christ still receives tithes as our high priest.

We’ve already seen that Abram/Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek who was “the priest of the most high God” (Genesis 14:18) LONG BEFORE there was ever a Levite, a Jew, an Israelite, or the Mosaic law upon the face of this earth. Now, we need to consider that the Melchizedekian priesthood not only PRECEDED the Levitical priesthood, but that God also swore that he would raise up another priest forever after the order of Melchizedek AFTER the Levitical priesthood had come into effect.

We read:

“The LORD has sworn, and will not repent, You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.” (Psalm 110:4)

Friends, this "priest forever after the order of Melchizedek” of whom God swore is none other than Jesus Christ.

We read:

“For this MELCHIZEDEK, king of Salem, PRIEST OF THE MOST HIGH GOD, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; TO WHOM ALSO ABRAHAM GAVE A TENTH PART OF ALL; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abides a priest continually. Now consider how great this man was, UNTO WHOM EVEN THE PATRIARCH ABRAHAM GAVE THE TENTH OF THE SPOILS. And verily they that are of THE SONS OF LEVI, WHO RECEIVE THE OFFICE OF THE PRIESTHOOD, HAVE A COMMANDMENT TO TAKE TITHES OF THE PEOPLE ACCORDING TO THE LAW, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: but HE WHOSE DESCENT IS NOT COUNTED FROM THEM RECEIVED TITHES OF ABRAHAM, and blessed him that had the promises. And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. AND HERE MEN THAT DIE RECEIVE TITHES; BUT THERE HE RECEIVES THEM, OF WHOM IT IS WITNESSED THAT HE LIVES. And as I may so say, LEVI ALSO, WHO RECEIVED TITHES, PAYED TITHES IN ABRAHAM. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchizedek met him. If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertains to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that AFTER THE SIMILITUDE OF MELCHIZEDEK THERE ARISES ANOTHER PRIEST, who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. FOR HE TESTIFIED, YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.” (Heb. 7:1-17)

Here’s a breakdown of what we just read:

A. Melchizedek was a priest of the most high God LONG BEFORE there was ever a Levitical priesthood (Heb. 7:1) in that his descent was not from the sons of Levi who came many years later (Heb. 7:5-6).
B. Melchizedek was made like unto the Son of God or made like unto Jesus in that he was without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life (Heb. 7:3). In other words, seeing how neither his birth nor his death is recorded in scripture, his priesthood foreshadowed Christ’s priesthood in that, figuratively speaking, he abides a priest continually (Heb. 7:3).
C. Abram/Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek (Heb. 7:2, 4, 6, 9) whose priesthood foreshadowed Christ's priesthood LONG BEFORE the Levitical priesthood ever came into effect.
D. Levi, from whom the Levitical priesthood later came, was also accounted to have paid tithes to Melchizedek who foreshadowed Christ because he was in Abram’s/Abraham’s loins when he paid tithes to Melchizedek (Heb. 7:9-10).
E. Not only did the Melchizedekian priesthood under which tithes were received PRECEDE the Levitical priesthood, but the sons of Levi or the Levitical priests who later received the office of the priesthood also had a commandment to receive tithes of the people according to the Mosaic law (Heb. 7:5).
F. After the Levitical priesthood had gone into effect, God swore (Psalm 110:4) that he would raise up another priest forever after the order of Melchizedek (Heb. 7:15-17).
G. Jesus Christ is now a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek, and he descended from the tribe of Judah, not Levi (Heb. 7:13-14).
Here is the pertinent point that cannot be missed:
H. Here men that die receive tithes, BUT THERE HE RECEIVES THEM, OF WHOM IT IS WITNESSED THAT HE LIVES (Heb. 7:8).

We must remember that at the time that this epistle was written the Jewish temple was still standing, and there were still Levitical priests (“men that die”) receiving tithes.

At the same time, however, he of whom it is witnessed that he lives or the risen Christ who now has an everlasting priesthood in heaven RECEIVES TITHES THERE.

Who is our high priest, Jesus Christ, receiving tithes from if not FROM CHRISTIANS?

He’s obviously not receiving them from those who deny his priesthood while still looking to the Levites, and, again, that priesthood is no longer in effect anyway.

In the same exact manner that Melchizedek received tithes of the faithful during his priesthood, Jesus Christ, whom Melchizedek foreshadowed, receives tithes from the faithful TODAY.

(Continued in my next post)

(Continued from my previous post)

3. The New Testament plainly teaches that God has ordained that those who preach the gospel should live of the gospel or be financed by it.

We read:

“My answer to them that do examine me is this, Have we not power to eat and to drink? Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? Who goes to warfare any time at his own charges? Who plants a vineyard and eats not of the fruit thereof? Or who feeds a flock and eats not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man or says not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, You shall not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treads out the corn. Does God take care for oxen or says he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that plows should plow in hope; and that he that threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless, we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do you not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple, and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? EVEN SO HAS THE LORD ORDAINED THAT THEY WHICH PREACH THE GOSPEL SHOULD LIVE OF THE GOSPEL. But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.” (I Cor. 9:3-15)

When Paul asked his examiners if he ONLY and Barnabas had not power to forbear or refrain from working (I Cor. 9:6), was he not implying that the other apostles and the brethren of the Lord whom he had previously mentioned had already done the same?

When he asked who goes to warfare at his own expense (I Cor. 9:7), what would you have answered?

Would any of you go to warfare while paying your own way?

Are there any Veterans reading this?

Did you pay your own way while enlisted in the military or did others pay your way for you?

If you didn’t pay your own way, then why should a Christian minister who is regularly engaged in spiritual warfare finance himself?

When Paul asked who plants a vineyard and then doesn’t eat of the fruits thereof (I Cor. 9:7), what would you have answered?

Is it wrong for a Christian minister who has been called to labor for others in God’s vineyard (Matt. 20:1, 21:28) to be sustained by the fruits thereof?

When Paul asked if someone who is shepherding a flock, as Christian ministers do, should be able to partake of the milk thereof for their own sustenance (I Cor. 9:7), what would you have answered?

Friends, Paul didn’t need any of our answers because he answered these questions himself when he quoted the following from the law of Moses (I Cor. 9:9):

“You shall not muzzle the ox when he treads out the corn.” (Deut. 25:4)

If any of us had oxen who were helping to plow our fields, would we put muzzles upon their mouths in order to prevent them from eating?

What happens to an ox that doesn’t eat?

IT DIES, and it is obviously no longer able to assist in plowing the field.

Why then should we, figuratively speaking, muzzle the mouths of God’s ministers who regularly plow in our fields?

Do we wish them death?

Many seemingly do.

Paul again quoted from Deuteronomy 25:4 while writing to Timothy.

We read:

“Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially they who labor in the word and doctrine. For the scripture says, You shall not muzzle the ox that treads out the corn. And, The laborer is worthy of his reward.” (I Tim. 5:17-18)

Here, Paul added a second proof text to support his teaching that God’s laborers ought to be sustained by the gospel, and this second proof text is a direct quote from Luke’s gospel.

We read:

“After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few: pray you therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth laborers into his harvest. Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. CARRY NEITHER PURSE, NOR SCRIP, NOR SHOES: and salute no man by the way. And into whatsoever house you enter, first say, Peace be to this house. And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. AND IN THE SAME HOUSE REMAIN, EATING AND DRINKING SUCH THINGS AS THEY GIVE: FOR THE LABORER IS WORTHY OF HIS HIRE. Go not from house to house.” (Luke 10:1-7)

Friends, when Jesus Christ sent out his laborers, he sent them out empty-handed BECAUSE THEY WERE TO BE SUSTAINED BY WHAT OTHERS GAVE THEM. This is precisely what he meant when he said “for the laborer is WORTHY of his hire”.

When did God’s LABORERS become UNWORTHY of their hire?

The correct answer is “NEVER!”, but many of those who profess to be Christians regularly cheat them out of what they are due while selfishly being served by them.

Turning back to what Paul wrote to the Corinthians, he rightfully asked:

“If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?” (I Cor. 9:11)

Again, Paul didn’t need anyone’s reply to his question because he answered it himself when he rightly noted “that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple, and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar” (I Cor. 9:13). In other words, Paul gave us the true reason why God commanded the Levites to receive tithes of their brethren, and that true reason was to have their natural provisions met while they did their service unto the Lord and his people.

Paul then capped off his teaching by plainly declaring:

“Even so has the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.” (I Cor. 9:14)

Seeing how this truly is what the Lord ordained, why do so many professing Christians errantly insist that the tithe has been done away with?

I can hear somebody object and say:

“Wait a minute, brother! Didn’t you read the next verse…I Corinthians 9:15?!?”

Yeah, I read it.

Here it is, again:

“But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.” (I Cor. 9:15)

Again, I can hear somebody object and say:

“Doesn’t this mean that Paul refused tithes in his own ministry?!?”

No, it does not, and such is easily proven.

For example, Paul later wrote to these same exact Corinthians and said:

“Have I committed an offense in abasing myself that you might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service. And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.” (II Cor. 11:7-9)

Of course, Paul didn’t literally “rob other churches”, but he said the same as a REBUKE towards these tight-fisted Corinthians. In other words, he informed them how other churches supplied those things which he lacked…some of which ought to have been supplied by these Corinthians.

Again, I’m not advocating anyone giving even one red cent of their money to the charlatans that I mentioned early on in this post. However, if you can’t find a church that actually preaches the truth (I can’t), then you can still help to financially support a minister or ministry that actually does preach the truth.

Well, I could say much more on this topic, but this ought to suffice.

Who has ears to hear, let them hear.

Hmm I can trace it back to the OT which was ..only guessing came before the Catholic Church If we get blessed and we want to give to the lord (some church some preacher) praise God between you and Him. Who cares what some man thinks and says. God made promises about giving so.. don't give to get yet know He will always bless a cheerful giver. And if you don't He wont condemn you nor judge you.. man will but He wont

Reading the comments I already wrote about this subject will help.

No, it didn't... not as a requirement.

If you actually take the time to read your Bible, you will see that Abram gave Melchizedek a tithe of war spoils. He was not under any requirement to give anything, and he gave nothing of his own.

If you actually take the time to read your Bible, you will see that there is no record in Scripture that Jacob ever fulfilled his vow in even the smallest thing.

Delusion is making up doctrine from narrative and calling it prescriptive.

No, it doesn't.

No, He didn't.

Jesus doesn't appear in the text of Hebrews 7 until verse 11, and then obliquely.

Yes, and this is talking about Melchizedek, not Jesus.

Wrong; based on an incorrect understanding of the passage.

Wrong; it's talking solely about Melchizedek and Abram.

Which has nothing to do with "tithing".

Fallacious (and irrelevant) appeal to emotion.

Which has nothing to do with "tithing".

It's unfortunate that you have confused giving with tithing. They are not the same thing prior to the Law, they are not the same thing under the law, and they are not the same thing for the church.

Further, you have confused the Christian's relationship to the Law with that of ancient Israel. Christians are not under the Law, period.

According to Scripture, the Christian is instructed to give as he has determined in his heart, generously, as he has prospered, regularly, to meet needs, to support the work of the gospel, and occasionally, sacrificially. None of that is "tithing". Tithes were never even payable on money. If you read your Bible, you would know this.

There isn't a single verse of Scripture that even hints that Christians are to give a specific percentage of their monetary income (which is what "tithing" is). There is no minimum, no standard, and no requirement. It is entirely voluntary.

Will you muzzle the ox while it is threshing?

Yes it did...and do you care to quote where I said it was a requirement?

Good luck with that.

I've spent ample time reading the Bible, and, again, I said nothing about a requirement in relation to Abraham and his tithes.

Work on your reading comprehension skills.

And there's no record that he didn't. The inference is that he did.

Oh, the irony.

Yes, it does.

Abram/Abraham, Melchizedek, Levi, and Jesus Christ are all inter-related in relation to tithing.

Again, Abram paid tithes to Melchizedek.

Scripture (not something that I allegedly "made up") declares that Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek as well in that he was yet in Abram's/Abraham's loins at that time.

The Levitical priesthood was ultimately replaced by Christ's priesthood, and Christ is a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

What?!?

Are you seriously suggesting that Jesus isn't the high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek about whom God swore?

If so, then you're in egregious error (you're in a bunch of error already either way).

Wrong...again.

More irony.

For someone who is repeatedly wrong himself, you sure do (mis-) use the word "wrong" a lot.