Christian tithing was started by the Roman Catholic Church
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I didn't say "singular" anywhere. "The text" means both that passage as well as the text of Scripture.
Try your demeaning jackdonkey attitude on someone who is impressed by meaningless braying. I'm not.
One does not rightly build doctrine on inference, but on the actual text.
While I agree that there is no record that he didn't fulfill his vow, there is also no record that he did. Therefore, this passage has no evidentiary value for either side of the debate.
Try your demeaning jackdonkey attitude on someone who is impressed by meaningless braying. I'm not.
One does not rightly build doctrine on inference, but on the actual text.
While I agree that there is no record that he didn't fulfill his vow, there is also no record that he did. Therefore, this passage has no evidentiary value for either side of the debate.
The Catholic Catechism merely sates: "The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his abilities." See here, "Fifth Precept": https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P75.HTM
Not all, but a lot of Catholic churches still teach and practice tithing. I do find it interesting that the Catechism says people have a "duty of providing for the material needs of the Church." By "church" they obviously mean the Catholic church. And even if it doesn't mention tithing, it's still obligatory giving, not free will.
Not all, but a lot of Catholic churches still teach and practice tithing. I do find it interesting that the Catechism says people have a "duty of providing for the material needs of the Church." By "church" they obviously mean the Catholic church. And even if it doesn't mention tithing, it's still obligatory giving, not free will.
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Acts 5:3-5 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
Acts 5:3-4: "But Peter said, 'Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart for you to lie to the Holy Spirit, and for you to keep back for yourself from the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain yours? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why have you purposed this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God.' "
He never vowed to give the money to the Lord. It was his money to do with as he pleased. He was filled with pride and wanted to look like a big shot by saying he gave it all. It was his pride that got him in trouble, not a broken vow.
He never vowed to give the money to the Lord. It was his money to do with as he pleased. He was filled with pride and wanted to look like a big shot by saying he gave it all. It was his pride that got him in trouble, not a broken vow.
L
In reality, I haven't confused anything.
Whether you like it or not, there is a correlation IN THE NEW TESTAMENT between "giving" and "tithing".
Not because I say so, but rather because the Apostle Paul plainly said so.
I Corinthians chapter 9
[13] Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
[14] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
Again, those who ministered about holy things while living of the things of the temple and/or those who waited at the altar while partaking of the altar WERE THE LEVITICAL PRIESTS WHO WERE RECEIVING TITHES UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES.
Here, Paul clearly (well, for those who don't shut their eyes to this New Testament truth) used the Old Testament tithe as his basis for saying "EVEN SO hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel".
To shut one's eyes to this obvious correlation isn't wise, but you're free to do so if you want to.
Whatever you decide, I'm confident that some others here will see this obvious correlation.
As far as my alleged confusion in regard to the Christian's relationship to the law is concerned (you really do like to falsely accuse people, don't you?), you are the one who apparently is either confused or just ignorant of the same.
For starters, even as we've just seen, the Apostle Paul, who wrote approximately half of the New Testament, clearly used a portion of the Old Testament law in relation to the Levitical priests and their receiving of tithes as his basis for his own New Testament doctrine concerning how the Lord has ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
In fact, the Apostle Paul REGULARLY cited Old Testament examples as the basis for his New Testament doctrine, and this most definitely includes his New Testament doctrine in relation to giving.
In a previous post here, I cited what Paul said twice in relation to giving.
Here it is, again:
I Corinthians chapter 9
[9] For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
[10] Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
[11] If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
I Timothy chapter 5
17] Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
[18] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
In both of these instances in THE NEW TESTAMENT, Paul cited the following passage of scripture from THE OLD TESTAMENT LAW as his basis for Christians providing for Christian ministers:
"Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn. " (Deuteronomy 25:4)
And then, of course, there's this:
II Corinthians chapter 8
[10] And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago.
[11] Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
[12] For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
[13] For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
[14] But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
[15] As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.
Where was it "written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack"?
Of course, it was "written" right here:
Exodus chapter 16
[14] And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.
[15] And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.
[16] This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents.
[17] And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less.
[18] And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating.
Again, Paul clearly cited a passage of scripture from THE OLD TESTAMENT LAW as his basis for there being "an equality" amongst NEW TESTAMENT SAINTS.
With things such as these in mind, in reality, I'm not the least bit confused in regard to the Christian's relationship to the law, contrary to your latest false accusation.
Whether you like it or not, there is a correlation IN THE NEW TESTAMENT between "giving" and "tithing".
Not because I say so, but rather because the Apostle Paul plainly said so.
I Corinthians chapter 9
[13] Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
[14] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
Again, those who ministered about holy things while living of the things of the temple and/or those who waited at the altar while partaking of the altar WERE THE LEVITICAL PRIESTS WHO WERE RECEIVING TITHES UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES.
Here, Paul clearly (well, for those who don't shut their eyes to this New Testament truth) used the Old Testament tithe as his basis for saying "EVEN SO hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel".
To shut one's eyes to this obvious correlation isn't wise, but you're free to do so if you want to.
Whatever you decide, I'm confident that some others here will see this obvious correlation.
As far as my alleged confusion in regard to the Christian's relationship to the law is concerned (you really do like to falsely accuse people, don't you?), you are the one who apparently is either confused or just ignorant of the same.
For starters, even as we've just seen, the Apostle Paul, who wrote approximately half of the New Testament, clearly used a portion of the Old Testament law in relation to the Levitical priests and their receiving of tithes as his basis for his own New Testament doctrine concerning how the Lord has ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
In fact, the Apostle Paul REGULARLY cited Old Testament examples as the basis for his New Testament doctrine, and this most definitely includes his New Testament doctrine in relation to giving.
In a previous post here, I cited what Paul said twice in relation to giving.
Here it is, again:
I Corinthians chapter 9
[9] For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
[10] Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
[11] If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
I Timothy chapter 5
17] Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
[18] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
In both of these instances in THE NEW TESTAMENT, Paul cited the following passage of scripture from THE OLD TESTAMENT LAW as his basis for Christians providing for Christian ministers:
"Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn. " (Deuteronomy 25:4)
And then, of course, there's this:
II Corinthians chapter 8
[10] And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago.
[11] Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
[12] For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
[13] For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
[14] But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
[15] As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.
Where was it "written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack"?
Of course, it was "written" right here:
Exodus chapter 16
[14] And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.
[15] And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.
[16] This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents.
[17] And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less.
[18] And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating.
Again, Paul clearly cited a passage of scripture from THE OLD TESTAMENT LAW as his basis for there being "an equality" amongst NEW TESTAMENT SAINTS.
With things such as these in mind, in reality, I'm not the least bit confused in regard to the Christian's relationship to the law, contrary to your latest false accusation.
Only in your mind; it certainly isn't in the text of Scripture.
And other offerings, which you have "conveniently" overlooked.
Through voluntary offerings, not through mandatory tithes.
More braying.
Correlation... between OT voluntary offerings and NT voluntary offerings.
Still more braying.
Actually, Paul only wrote a little over a quarter of the NT.
Paul had plenty of opportunity to cite specific passages about tithing. He didn't do so even once. Perhaps you should "infer" something from that.
Giving, yes. Tithing, no.
Which has nothing to do with tithing.
Which again has nothing to do with tithing.
Which, yet again, has nothing to do with tithing.
Yawn... you really need to give up on the rhetoric. It's not your strength.
And other offerings, which you have "conveniently" overlooked.
Through voluntary offerings, not through mandatory tithes.
More braying.
Correlation... between OT voluntary offerings and NT voluntary offerings.
Still more braying.
Actually, Paul only wrote a little over a quarter of the NT.
Paul had plenty of opportunity to cite specific passages about tithing. He didn't do so even once. Perhaps you should "infer" something from that.
Giving, yes. Tithing, no.
Which has nothing to do with tithing.
Which again has nothing to do with tithing.
Which, yet again, has nothing to do with tithing.
Yawn... you really need to give up on the rhetoric. It's not your strength.
Why are so many concerned about tithing? Almost no one tithes at 10% anymore, to Christian Churches. So why are you beating this dead horse subject? Here's some info on tithing:
- Only 5% tithe, and 80% of Americans only give 2% of their income.
- Christians are giving at 2.5% of income; during the Great Depression it was 3.3%.
- Only 3-5% of Americans who give to their local church do so through regular tithing.
- For families making $75k+, 1% of them gave at least 10% in tithing.
- The average giving by adults who attend US Protestant churches is about $17 a week.
- 37% of regular church attendees and Evangelicals don’t give money to church.
- 17% of American families have reduced the amount that they give to their local church.
- 7% of church goers have dropped regular giving by 20% or more.
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The answer is simple: Because it's not a dead horse.
You can quote all the facts and figure you please, but throw a dart at practically any group these days and you'll hear them begging for tithes. Tithing is the way megachurches became megachurches; smaller and medium sized congregations teach it so they can become large. It's a false doctrine that's being used by the greedy to get rich.
You can quote all the facts and figure you please, but throw a dart at practically any group these days and you'll hear them begging for tithes. Tithing is the way megachurches became megachurches; smaller and medium sized congregations teach it so they can become large. It's a false doctrine that's being used by the greedy to get rich.
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