"If You Want to Have Sex, Get Married." Ok. But What If You Want to Have Sex, and You're ALREADY Married?

Besides...I got a Black forest cake to concern myself with

You seem to be thinking that you've somehow run me off by simply having a different point of view. If so, then I can assure you that that's not the case.

My "normal" (not that I claim to be normal) posting style is to say what I think needs to be said, and then to just move on. I'm definitely not the browbeat into agreement/submission type, but instead the plant and water type...fully recognizing that God alone can give the increase.

In this particular case, I don't even know that there was any type of increase that I was seeking. Instead, I merely jumped in, honestly shared some of my own life's experiences, threw in some scripture (which is always my priority) for people to hopefully ponder, and that's basically it.

I honestly don't know what else to say because I have nothing else to say.

Well, except to say to Lynx that I'm not into what he called "pissing contests". What I am into instead is people. I could elaborate on this point, but I won't. If people don't know me by now, and what makes me tick, then I doubt that they ever will or that they even desire to do so.

In either case, no one has offended me here, but I do believe that some comments that were made in this thread are offensive to God himself.

Anyhow, I think that I'm officially done on this tread.

Good night.

P.S.

I probably shouldn't add this, but I will.

Just so you know that you truly haven't run me off with your comments here, I will let you know that you were very much a part of the reason why I left this website my first time through here as "Live4Him". Not that you committed some great offense, but more so in the sense that you disappointed me, and it was kind of a "last straw" for me in that I felt that you were one of the few bright spots here at that time.

By "disappointed", I mean that I felt then, and probably still do now, that you have a lot more to offer from a scriptural standpoint than you normally offer here. Anyhow, that's just my own personal observation/assessment, and although you might take it negatively, it could also be seen as a positive or a bit of a nudge to share more of God's word here.

That's your call. At my end, I'm just being my usual honest self...even if you think I'm honestly wrong.

You're certainly not the first one here to tell me that you are "disappointed" with me.

And as you take the right to be honest, so will I. My honest answer back is that unless you are my mom, dad, or close friends who have been with me through thick and thin (my most private, troubled thoughts and histories,) you're free to your own feelings, so you go do what you need to do. As I've said, the biggest criticisms I've ever had have always been from other Christians, and always because they want me to be more like them. They have their own definition of what a Christian is, and that's all they want me to be. More of what THEY think I should be. Leaving me with only an empty shell of who I really am.

I was raised in a church culture that was, as I look back, and as I often run into now, an avalanche of "Hallelujah's With No Humanity."

I wrote a thread a while back as an answer to those who want me to be like them and quote Scripture in every post (because you aren't the only one to criticize me for that and see themselves as being sent from God to get me to do more of what they do.)

Many years ago, I read an article about a 45-year-old man who had been raised in a devout Catholic home. Starting from his very young childhood, one of the priests raped him regularly at their church, and he said that even now, he could "see that glittering gold cross dangling around the priest's neck" as he was doing so.

To most Christians, the cross means salvation, Christ's ultimate sacrifice, comfort, and joy. But to this 45-year-old man, a cross symbolized a grown man, a priest who claimed to be the messenger of God who continuously sexually abusing a small boy, and the church that protected that "man of God," but not him.

Those are the people I'm called to. The ones who are quoted half the Bible before they can ever tall their story. The ones who are assumed to be evil outsiders and to know nothing of God. The ones who have also been swamped with hallelujah's, but never once shown an ounce of humanity.

For whatever reason, people have opened up to me about their past sexual abuses throughout my life, starting with a girl at summer camp when I was about 11 years old. It's never stopped, to the point where sometimes now I even get a physical pain that rips through my abdomen, and as soon as it starts, I started asking God who it is, and what I need to do to prepare.

And I don't feel led to bombard them with Scripture. Rather, I feel led to just let them to talk, to go have lunch with them, to learn the name of their children, and to just let them be human for a while. If I have a ministry, it has always been one of friendship, and it goes much slower than most would ever have the patience for. Which is one of the reasons why I write threads -- it's a chance to get to know people.

I'm also here for those who are questioning their faith or might not even have any, but maybe they want to know more. If you're trying to teach someone Japanese, you COULD start by speaking all-out, full Japanese to them, but that's not what I believe I'm built for. Rather, I spend most of my time learning THEIR language first, and look for little opportunities to then talk about faith.

One thing I hate is when people assume I know nothing of the Bible or have never read it. I'm certainly no expert and never will be, but because I don't think it's fair when Christians automatically assume I'm spiritually illiterate, and so I try not to do that to other people. I let them tell me, bit by bit, what they know and believe. Some atheists I've talked to were raised in Christian homes and are quite Biblically literate. I worked with one in college who actually studied world religions as his major, so I try to never assume, nor do I bombard people with passages until I have known them for a long time and generally on a one-to-one basis.

You're judging me for what you know of me here on CC, and you don't know me. If I do have a "ministry," so to speak, it is mostly done through one-to-one correspondence, of which never sees the light of day here on this forum. One of the prisoners I used to write graciously wrote, "Seoul, if you should ever need a witness in heaven to give a testimony of your life here on earth, I will be more than happy to stand up before God on your behalf."

So you feel free to judge me on the tiny slice of what you see here -- that's your own prerogative.

Now if you're right, and I'm doing something wrong, God will surely deal with me. In fact, I tell people, go ahead and pray against me, because if God sides with you, He's going to let me know.

But if I AM being what God calls me to be and doing it in the way that He wants me to, I am not here to somehow appease your or anyone else's disappointment. I'm very used to criticism and so I asked God a long time whom I should pay attention to you.

And He told me, "If someone has taken the time to be there with you during your (what I call crashes -- my bouts with depression,) that is someone who should be listened to."

Pipp, Lynx, and Cinder might be some of my closest friends here, but you'd better believe they take me to task when they disagree with me. They're still loving and they still hear what I have to say, but they know me personally and on a level that takes many, many years to do so, because believe it or not, I don't open up all that easily.

If God wants me to change, He's never shy about confronting me. But I will also put in my own prayer, that if this is how I'm supposed to be and what I'm supposed to be doing, that He will help me double down all the more and become even more so.

I can't even say I'm sorry to you or anyone else who expresses their "disappointment" in me -- not out of arrogance, but just because it's simply an opinion, and your right to have, but not my obligation to bend to.

God willing, I pray that I will never be what others try to mold me to be. I've always been different and I've learned to embrace it, and I've asked God many times not to let others define who I should be.

So you feel free to pray that God will change me as you see fit, because again, if He agrees with you, He will certainly deal with me because of it.

But if not, and your disappointment is so immense, you are certainly free to either leave again or just put me on ignore.

I never worry about running you off, because I know absolutely nothing will. I'm never worried about you being run off, believe me.

Which, as you say God calls you here, is for the good.

But when you say, "You disappointed me," it almost makes me smile, because this has always been one of the devil's favorite things to tell me, and it's always under a religious guise. It almost makes me want to say, "So we meet again."

I know anyone thinking they are more spiritual is going to see me as arrogant for saying so. But we all come to a point where we recognize familiar voices in our lives, and we learn to walk away from them.

Now I realize, if what you speak is from God, people will then accuse me of blasphemy.

But we all have spiritually manipulative voices in our lives, and over time, I've gotten a little better at recognizing them.

Telling me, "You disappointed me" implies that I somehow need to change according to your opinion.

We shall see.

seoul

I have learned to ignore a lot of what men say if they are intent on having people think or dress exactly like they do because, we women have bodies and minds of our own and that doesnt change who we are. marriage doesnt change who a person is. They dont suddenly BECOME the other person and read their minds.

men may think that just because they are getting inside a womans body so to speak that they have a right to control her. Well no. Women are not puppets.
and when you hit them it actually HURTS its not like you can hit a soft toy or pillow and think nothings gonna happen. Shes not going to cushion any of your blows. Men - a woman is a human being just like you are.

A human being is not perfect. A human is human. we come in two basic forms male and female, but to God that doesnt matter In Christ. Also human is not God, an idol, or a pet. Expect nothing more and nothing less.

One other thing I think is important to remember is that we are all called differently.

I am guessing that you fancy yourself as a bit of a spiritual teacher -- someone who is called to teach Scripture, which is great, but that is not what I am called to be.

My whole life, I couldn't figure out why I was always "in the middle" -- always between races, groups, etc. I never quite fit into one or the other. And I know a lot of people feel this way.

Many years ago, I was attending a luncheon with my Grandpa for WWII vets, and two other veterans started asking him about his experiences. All 3 men were very hard of hearing. They wanted to talk to each other, but their limited hearing was preventing a conversation. It wound up that the men would say what they wanted to say to me, and I would then have to explain and translate" the message in a loud, clear voice.

As this was happening, a light bulb went off in my head. I could feel God telling me, "THIS is what you are. You are a bridge between people. That's why you've never fit into one place or the other -- you have a little bit of both, just enough to be able to understand how to get different parties to communicate with each other. You are a translator, but instead of translating languages, you translate people to one another."

After all these years, it suddenly made sense. And sometimes bridges also mean helping people get from one step in their lives to another. I read a book once that explained it beautifully: what if someone has 32 more steps before they give their life to Christ? What if you meet them when they're at step 4, and trying to get to step 5? And what if those steps means backing off and not bombing them with Bible passages, but just listening to stories they've been holding in all their lives? And at times, I know I've been called to help people burn bridges as well.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't write threads for attention -- I'm still very much an anonymous person behind a screen name. Rather, I write threads because these are the "bridges" that get people from one step to another, whether within their own thoughts, or through talking with other people. Now, can those bridges include recitations of Scripture? Of course.

But again, I'm not a teacher. I'm here to help people introduce themselves and to get them talking, sometimes even to each other.

Teachers, on the other hand, are the ones who command all the attention in the room, and expect to do most or all of the talking.

So please, Live4Him, if you feel led, go right on talking.

It means I'm doing my job.

Feel free to think of it in reverse as well: if you were called to build bridges between people instead -- not immediately convert them, but get them to the next step -- what would it look like, and how would you structure it?

For me, writing threads is my way of pouring the foundation and setting up the scaffolding.

Thanks, Lanolin, I really do appreciate your input.

Over the years, I've pretty much heard it all as far as criticisms go, and it's ok. Sure, I'm as human as... uh, the next human being , but I try to ask God to use it to help me grow. To be honest, it all becomes a bit like white noise.

@Live4Him3 -- You may be interested to know that a while back (I'm not sure exactly when because I didn't write down the date, lol) there was another Single's Forum regular who blasted me in one of my threads for EXACTLY the same thing. He gave me a good old-fashioned verbal lashing for not using Scriptures in my posts. He's still around.

And I told him all the exact same things I just told you (I've been told things like this so many times, I've pretty much developed a memorized, automatic answer.)

I also told him the same thing: if you believe this is from God, then pray against me, because God is going to deal with me.

I don't know if it can be seen as an answer or not (or possibly just me being stubborn,) but I'm still here, and I'm still doing the exact same thing (which is obvious, seeing as you just called it out.)

I have long told my critics to pray against me -- meaning, to say, "God, if this is really from you, keep after Seoul to change. But if I'm wrong about her and she's doing what you want her to do, then show me I'M WRONG."

There hasn't been a single time, not ever, when they invited ME to pray the same prayer back about THEM.

Essentially, what I'm asking then to do is to first ask God if what they want in me is really from Him -- or from them.

Like I said, maybe I'm just stubborn, and not listening.

Or could it possibly be that... Gasp! They were wrong? They never seem to come back and say either way, which I would hope they would do. And I would hope they would so so publicly since that's also how they chose to let out their "disappointment." If it's been years and I'm still doing the same thing, and you still think I'm wrong and need to change, come back and tell me. Chances are, I'll be here.

And please don't think I'm just a "Yes Ma'am!" kind of person either, lol. Lynx took me to task a while back over something and basically told me to "Suck it up and get over it!" Lol. I grumbled rather loudly at the time...

But in the end, I knew he was right. He let me vent for a while without judging, because he knows that's part of how I move on. I have to get it out before I can get it out of the way. No lectures, no endless Scripture recitation, just let me get it out first, and THEN we can talk "more spiritual."

I'm guessing that a lot of other people are like that as well, and so that's also what I try to do with them.

I do try to read the Bible on a daily basis -- at the very least, a morning devotional -- and instead of bringing that here, I choose to talk amongst my closest friends instead, but you won't see that here.

And you can't judge me or my life based on just my posts when there is so much that you don't see.

You have always been a great friend here, Magenta, thank you so much.

And I love that you live up the forum with all the colors of your art work. 🎨🖌️👩‍🎨

As a married that was single when I joined CC and because of CC ended up married. I have had so many questions myself and it is sad because there seems to be no one to ask them to. Over 60 and when everything still works as that can be a miracle in itself there may be other things at play that you might have questions on but don't want to hurt or embarrass your partner in asking.

So who do you talk to? When you know they love you and have so many ways to show it and yet maybe both are not satisfied in this area? It is a conundrum. No there is no reason to end the marriage because love is there and partnership. Praying fixes a lot but not everything. When someone comes up with some of these answers please let me know.

I do believe a true partnership is more than sex and I also believe that building up your partner no matter what is so important because if they feel they aren't adequate the situation can get worse. I also don't believe in fake it till you make it either. I do believe in unconditional love and practice it to the best of my ability.

So things aren't always perfect but we do have a perfect world to look forward to when we won't have these questions anymore not sure what will be in heaven, but whatever it is it will probably make sex insignificant.

I thought we Christians are supposed to work at producing the fruit of the Spirit, one of which is self control. That doesn't come easy, we have to work at acquiring it, as well as the other types of fruit the Spirit wants to issue forth from us.

Indeed, all the fruit of the Spirit need to be evident and breaking forth from us, if we are wanting our relationships to flourish.

We have aim for balanced behaviour, in everything.

The words of someone for whom life has not crapped on yet.

Okay... I didn't read both posts. The first one was lengthy enough for me. I hope I properly address your thoughts (and, this post may try the patience of others.)

There are things Paul says that sometimes leave me with a bit of an ache in my head. Yes, I know it's the Word of God. Sorry, I'm a fallen, shortsighted human, and some things are hard to digest (James 1:1 being another). I realize some here are so holy that they're already sitting next to God on a throne, but I'm not.

So...

Paul says that married people should not stay too long from one another should one or both be tempted to stray. Ummm... sooo... only married people can feel tempted to sexually sin? Single people have no sexual drive or instincts, Paul? Oh, that's right, we're supposed to be self-controlled. Why did you not give the married couples who part for a time to seek God that same advice? Are they the only ones with a legitimate libido??

This whole topic frustrates me. Counting 18 years of age as the start of adulthood, I've been alone, unattached and sexless for 3/4 of my adult life. Bear in mind, I consider my sex drive to be quite normal, healthy. It's not what it was at 17 (thank GOD), but rest assured, I freaking miss it. But, the only advice for me is to remain self-controlled and get married.

Well...

Easier said than freaking done. And no, Paul does not address that. Then again, getting married in his day was not the complicated thing it is today. Frankly, I'm not sure how people got married and stayed married without taking time to really get to know one another first via dating. And yet, it seems like those marriages lasted??? And today, a lot of marriages, even Christian ones, suck?!? Maybe we should do whatever it was they did back then. Can someone elucidate on that?

Moving on...

If you're in a marriage in which you are unable to have a physical relationship with your spouse, you're stuck. I don't see a way out. That's life and life this side of Heaven ain't fair. However, I know of one woman who's husband was diabetic and could not -- trying to be gentle here -- rise to the occasion, and so she prayed for God to take away her sex drive. She says He answered her in the affirmative.

I know of another situation in which the woman simply refused. She just didn't want to. I have to wonder if that is not grounds for a Biblical divorce.

Folks, Seoul (not that you're not a "folk", ha ha), for everything in this life there are no guarantees. We read what the Bible tells us, but sometimes those things still do not work out for us. Sin has killed the paradisiacal existence we were supposed to have. We may get into an accident and be paralyzed from the neck down tomorrow. Life sometimes just sucks. There is no explanation, no (human) logic behind it. Our only consolation is that we'll be out of here eventually.

As for Christians offering stupid advice, challenge them on it. You needn't be argumentative. Just point out the illogic or inconsistency of their remark(s) (although sometimes, I have to admit, that is anything but easy... I've been the recipient of the boneheaded and clueless comment from the brethren). If they say something stupid like "Oh, you just don't have enough faith", then I have to believe it's because they simply haven't lived long enough to experience life's pains yet. Don't worry. They will.

If it helps at all, and it may not, here are two Christian sites for married couples offering thoughts and counsel on marital sex.

https://themarriagebed.com

https://christiannymphos.org

The latter one is by women who, apparently, thoroughly enjoy their husbands and make sure that that is reciprocated. Does it match their premarital fantasies? Don't know. You'd probably need to ask.

I can say this about that last paragraph: My sex life with my little honey was not perfect (nothing this side of eternity is), but it was pretty dang good. She was really the best wife a man could have, for a number of reasons (up to and including her uh-dorable personality, her cooking ability, and yes, love of Godzilla (yes, she was a Christian too )).

I'm tired and not sure if there is a unifying thought underlying my comments or a logical flow through them. I hope this all made some kind of sense.

Hey... HEY!!!! I don't know who you are lady, but don't badmouth Hallmark! They know love! In fact, they're the last word on it, which cornball movie after cornball movie proves!

Dangit.

You know, I didn't even finish reading your post, nor will I bother to read the other three responses I see that you've left me.

Why?

Because this one is full of the same type of over-exaggerations and veiled accusations as your post from last night ("long diatribe", "going on", etc.).

News flash, seoul.

I'm full of humanity, even if others here might think I'm full of something else.

You're called to the hurting?

Well, if you've ever heard and believed a word that I've said, then you would know that my ex was sexually molested by her own father repeatedly between the ages of 5 and 6 years old, and that I spent the bulk of our 17 year marriage compassionately seeking to help her while also driving her to counselors galore, and she was basically seeking to destroy me for about 16 of those 17 years. Then there's my last girlfriend who I just mentioned again last night. Yep, raped by her mother's boyfriend at 4 years old, thrown into an abusive foster care system, and she subsequently entered in a life of prostitution for many years. She would be the first to tell you how compassionate I was towards her, but to hear you speak, unlike you, I'm just an inhuman being who "bombards" people with scripture and wants everybody else to do the same.

Try listening to what people actually have to say in the future would be my last piece of advice to you.

Farewell.

I was there two weeks ago and it was definitely warm and humid!

This is one of the toughest topics to ponder about... you covered all angles.

I was told many times in church do this and that, don't do this and that.. and many times not in depth why.

Many fall into sin... God's grace and mercy covers it all.

I believe the more we focus on Him, the less of a temptation it is to fall into sin.

My reality was taken day by day. Nothing can prepare you for reality until we experience it.

People fall short, including the advice they give. To prevent from falling into the same trap, you go to God and ask Him for direction in your life.

I know sex creates a bond between the two people and I have always thought the Bible says no sex before marriage because of that and He doesn't want babies out of wedlock. He wants the babies to have a Father and Mother together if at all possible.

My two cents...

So let me get this straight.

Your "last piece of advice" to me is to "actually listen to what people have to say", yet you're telling me that you're not even going to bother reading (listening to) the things I wrote back to you in reply. How did you come to the conclusion that you somehow even have the authority to warrant out advice to me as to what I need to do?

Because at the same time, you are declaring that listening apparently only applies to me, but it doesn't apply to you at all.

These are the kinds of things that make me grin. How can a someone like that possibly expect to be taken seriously when saying something so hypocritical?

The people who write and write and write... and apparently want OTHER people to read what THEY write -- in fact, they even think what they write must be important, and that people SHOULD read their posts... But when someone takes the time to write something back, NO, it's, "You should be listening to ME. I don't see a reason to even bother reading what you wrote, but by golly, everyone should be listening to ME."

And we're actually supposed to take this seriously -- rules that apply to "us", but NOT them.

Uh, ok.

And I'm not saying people SHOULD read everything I write. I'm just saying, people shouldn't be me or anyone else what to do when they're unwilling to do the same for themselves.

After contemplating and praying about the things you've said, in all honesty, I already told you what I think God was saying to me through your posts, but you say you're not going to read my posts in return, so the things I'm saying aren't for you. They're for the people following along with the conversation.

Some are going to identify with you; some are going to identify with me; some are going to think we're both crazy and wish we both would just go away. And that's ok. We're all here for different people and for different reasons.

I believe my purpose in this conversation is to give an example of what I do when someone tries to spiritually manipulate me, for the better or for the worse.

The biggest thing I got from everything you said is that I believe God is telling me, "The people who say these things to you expect you to step up and be a teacher (as they see themselves to be,) but you are not a teacher. You are not what they think you are and keep telling you that you should be." And I believe the Holy Spirit is telling me just to stand.

Again, I included this in my posts that you say you won't read, but a while back, a regular Singles member came in and lambasted me for THE EXACT SAME thing as you are doing now.

But I'm still here, doing the same thing, and I actually see your posts as a confirmation that I need to just stand.

So you do what you need to do, and if you keep coming at me and I still haven't changed to your specifications? (Which you'll tell me about but apparently will refuse to listen to me in return as you're spelling out your stipulations to me...)

Go right ahead, because more than likely, I'll still be here.

Standing.

Man, this happens often to a lot of people in the church

I have to continually remind myself I go to church to worship God and hear a sermon I can apply to my life. People will fall short from His glory.