Pre-Destination, God's Foreknowledge and Choice

How can we say God is Sovereign over his creation if we insist God isn't sovereign,in control of all of his creation, from beginning to end?

Daniel 4:35

For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.” (1 John 3:20 ESV)

Psalm 31:19

“For the Lord is good; his steadfast love endures forever, and his faithfulness to all generations.” (Psalm 100:5 ESV)

While this is true, there is a little bit of correspondence to Calvinism in the Five Articles of Remonstrance put out by the Arminians. Article 3 in particular reflects Total Depravity.

'That man has not saving grace of himself, nor of the energy of his free will, inasmuch as he, in the state of apostasy and sin, can of an by himself neither think, will, nor do any thing that is truly good (such as saving Faith eminently is); but that it is needful that he be born again of God in Christ, through his Holy Spirit, and renewed in understanding, inclination, or will, and all his powers, in order that he may rightly understand, think, will, and effect what is truly good, according to the Word of Christ, John 15:5, “Without me ye can do nothing.”'

This almost sounds like a sinner must experience the New Birth before believing.

Are you Calvinist in your beliefs?

Listen, we don't need that type of nonsense in this thread. I'm not a moderator but I did start the thread.

If you cannot discuss your beliefs without making false accusations and comments at others and trying to get an argument going, maybe you should move along. Seems like you joined just to hoist the flag of Calvinism and this thread is not to discuss Calvinism alone or argue about it.

While this is a public forum, I am going to suggest people just ignore you if that is the best you can contribute.

Here's an open question (not directed at anyone)

Do you think John 3:16 points to Arminianism, Calvinism or perhaps indicates neither?

I think mostly there’s partial truth in both aspects but like Gods word always is it doesn’t work right if we only accept parts of it

what I mean is God is sovereign over all things and because of this when he speaks a decree it is irrevocable it has to be as he said it. So here’s what I’m getting at if we look at the beginning we can see what happened in that God the creator gave the earthly part of creation to mankind to rule and have dominion over.

“The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: But the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭115:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Thy is sins up what happened but genesis 2-3 shows us the detail.

so what happens when a God who is sovereign and his word is sovereign gives earth to mankind d mankind is the. Corrupted by evil spiritual influence ?

God has now given the earth freely to mankind and given man dominion over all the earth but look what the corruption did to man now and what man had done to the earth God gave us

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-8, 11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when God created man and gave man the earth and set all thkngs in perfect order to his Will he said this

“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this was mans place and role on earth as good stewards

“And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:8, 15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this was mans internal state in Gods presence


“And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is what God have to man the sovereign God who’s decisions are final. But just ten generations later he’s situated and full of anger towards man because they ruined creation by filling it with evil that came from worhon thier mind and heart after they broke this command this life giving warning

“but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:17‬ ‭

And so mans inner state became this because of this corruption

“And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; ( shame ) and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden…. And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:7-8, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

satan has caused man to fear hearing Gods word creating rebellion and so mans place became this because of this

“So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in the first three chapters we’re seeing the creation on genesis 1-2 and Gods plan for mankind’s life but then chapter 3 shows us what happened to seperate man , from our original relationship with God

my entire point is this Gods sovereignty prevents him from going back against his word infact it’s the one thing God cannot do is tell a lie Whatever he says becomes the truth itself and determines the outcome of creation it must be fulfilled

this means to at God have mankind dominion and rule and the highest place of influence on earth among all creatures , and because we were deceived in mind and heart and corrupted by Satans Will for man , ….man actually bungled creations original path and intended existence evil was never meant to be part of mankind’s existence on earth with God never meant to be in our minds and hearts desire but it made mans heart vulnerable to satans I die very on earth and that’s really what the Bible is about

the story of mans creation on earth and how we followed satans influence rather than Gods d corrupted the earth with violence and death but in Gods mercy he has spared mans species through time in order that man be restored tomorigo Al place and state with God and the original intent of his will be fulfilled eternally on a made new earth with Christ being lord of all mankind

Because he is sovereign and he freely gave man his place in the creation he either had to destroy us all and start over or redeem those who will be redeemed and make them his family as was the original intent at creation the sins and daughters of God having relationship with him forever beyond death

All Of the partial truths scattered in galvanism’s erroneous conclusions and other philosophies conclusions all go together tommake the real true message in the Bible it all reconciles at the foot of the cross or rather at the feet of the one who died on the cross and rose from the dead leaving and empty tomb and sits now at the nt tbt hand of God in heavens kingdom waiting for his people as we pass through the world to him

he has a plan much higher than our thinking but he’s made it known in the gospel of the kingdom , the eternal redemption , restoration , reconciliation of mans original place with him in a paradise

the Bible tells us how we lost our place here in the ot law of Moses books and the prophets who came after

“therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And the new testament tells us how Jesus has sworn an oath to redeem and restore us to this place we began before sin

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭

just as through Adams transgression they were excluded from his presence and the tree of life , through Christs righteousness in the gospel the door is opened again by this one and only sovereign God

Calvinism is missing what happened in the beginning when God made man for a purpose and in a particular image and likeness as if man isn’t created like God through Christ able to choose freely of corruption , Calvin refuses to acknowledge the true restoration of the gospel me it’s true and powerful effect on mans nature and heart and mind

“that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul’s saying embrace the new man created in the gospel follow Jesus

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭

Calvin doesn’t allow for any instruction because it means if we acknolwedge all the instructions and warnings in scripture the. We in fact can change our ways consciously and choose good over evil repetitively and consistently until it becomes our nature . The Bible proves man has a choice in thier salvation and that man is le to change thier evil
Instincts and pull to sin over to pull for righteousness and a nature formed after the son of God it’s not only a choice but the most important choice we make daily

Wouldn't that refer to being able to save yourself more or less? (since it mentions saving grace) I don't think a person can have it both ways.

I would definitely not label myself as either; Christian or believer would suffice for me. I have read some definitions of Arminianism that I would not agree with and I think there is a tendency to over simplification in that area.

Actually I do understand and I am positive so do many others in this forum. That isn't what this thread is about though.
In any event, faith would precede the works we are created to do and even sinful people engineer good works but are not saved by them.

It isn't about works, but there are threads in which a person can discuss that until they fall asleep

Calvinism doesn't utilize the Bible to sustain its doctrine?

No.

You must imagine yourself of great influence in your display of self righteousness, thinking to command by suggestion others ignore one you cannot address civilly.

It must be understood as an excerpt of the larger frame.
Yeshuah came in fulfillment of the prophecy breathed by God before the world was born from his will.

Yeshuah,Immanuel,Jesus, was that breath made flesh. And lived his purpose for whom he was made. Both the old and new testamonies inform of this.

Not at all. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for all those who believe (Rom 1:16). So the seed of the New Birth is in fact the Word of God (the Gospel) as noted by Peter in 1 Peter 1:23-25 and confirmed by John in John 1:12,13. And Romans 10 clearly tells us that we are saved by calling up the name of the Lord, and that faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (the Gospel) (Rom 10:17). But no one is regenerated without the gift of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:4-7) which is only given to those who repent and believe.

If God's grace is resistible, then how do you explain Daniel 4:35? Does resistible mean to stay his hand?

Neither.

Salvation after belief.. that isn't calvinism.

Eternal life given at belief.. that isn't arminianism.

Although armeniast may say they get eternal life but can undo it.. which is illogical.

Nope. Guess I have some homework to do. Thanks

There is definitely some tension around here

I always and I do mean always, have a view to the whole picture.

You seem to be leaning in that direction though.

I don't imagine anything.

Perhaps consider what you said ESPECIALLY since you just joined the forum and don't yet know who is who and what they believe or know, (notwithstanding you are a returning member with a new moniker) and adjust the temperature of your posts so that you don't sound like YOU are the know all and end all here.

I am actually a very reasonable person, but I know bully tactics, which is what you did, when I see them and I don't wish that for anyone.

Telling someone you do not know, that their response to you sounds like they prefer to ignore parts of the Bible they do not understand or like, is not inclined towards the civility you dream of enjoying here one day.