apostleship of Paul

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GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
#1
Feb 22, 2021
2,960
1,388
113
Midwest
#1
"
...“Paul, an apostle, ( not of men, neither by man,​
but By Jesus Christ, and God the Father, Who​
Raised Him from the dead; )” (Gal. 1:1)...​

...As you read these opening words, you can almost hear the thunder in the
apostle’s voice as he declares in his opening salvo...

...Saul, a name that means desired...after he got saved, he began to go
by the name of Paul instead (Acts 13:9), a name that means small...Saul
no longer wanted to be desired of men; he now wanted to appear small in
their eyes that they might rather desire The LORD!...

...are you still seeking to be desired of men?...

...most Christians know that Paul asserts that salvation is by Grace through faith
without works (Rom. 4:5), but they also know that Chief Apostle James is just as
adamant that “faith without works is dead” (James 2:20).

So to homogenize these two opposite and contradictory messages they conclude
that Paul is talking about justification before God while James is addressing the
issue of justification before men, even though The LORD never asked anyone to
be justified before men—in fact, He condemned it (Luke 16:15)!

And on and on it goes, as futile attempts are made to try to blend Paul’s unique
message with the teachings of The LORD’s chiefest apostles, the other writers of
the New Testament. How much easier it would be to just acknowledge the
distinctive apostleship and message of the Apostle Paul—and how much
more Scriptural!...
"
(R Kurth)

FULL study link

apostleship of Paul.png

GRACE And Peace...
 
J

Jesusfollower

Active member
#2
Oct 21, 2021
352
195
43
jamaica
#2
GRACE_ambassador said:
"
...“Paul, an apostle, ( not of men, neither by man,​
but By Jesus Christ, and God the Father, Who​
Raised Him from the dead; )” (Gal. 1:1)...​

...As you read these opening words, you can almost hear the thunder in the
apostle’s voice as he declares in his opening salvo...

...Saul, a name that means desired...after he got saved, he began to go
by the name of Paul instead (Acts 13:9), a name that means small...Saul
no longer wanted to be desired of men; he now wanted to appear small in
their eyes that they might rather desire The LORD!...

...are you still seeking to be desired of men?...

...most Christians know that Paul asserts that salvation is by Grace through faith
without works (Rom. 4:5), but they also know that Chief Apostle James is just as
adamant that “faith without works is dead” (James 2:20).

So to homogenize these two opposite and contradictory messages they conclude
that Paul is talking about justification before God while James is addressing the
issue of justification before men, even though The LORD never asked anyone to
be justified before men—in fact, He condemned it (Luke 16:15)!

And on and on it goes, as futile attempts are made to try to blend Paul’s unique
message with the teachings of The LORD’s chiefest apostles, the other writers of
the New Testament. How much easier it would be to just acknowledge the
distinctive apostleship and message of the Apostle Paul—and how much
more Scriptural!...
"
(R Kurth)

FULL study link

View attachment 241443

GRACE And Peace...
Click to expand...

Hello Chris, Paul was a self proclaimed apostle, even boasting to be the better one of the apostles. The true apostles were the ones personally appointed by Jesus Christ son of GOD himself. The true apostle of Christ, lived with him and were thought by him. It was not the case with paul The contradiction you mention in james is very real and only one of many and cannot be reconciled with the words of Paul. Paul in his writings contradicts himself and most importantly contradicts Christ in reference to the law. This cannot be denied in any way!

You have a choice to make, the truth of Christ of the words of Paul. Please test and verify the teachings of Christ and the true apostle against Paul's and prove me wrong. You will not be able to. You can start with James writings that align with Christ words but not with Paul's. Often, there are serious flaw in your comprehension of scriptures regarding the law, and works that I cannot comprehend. I have a feeling you have been mislead from the truth by false teachers and I fear for you. Your only teacher should be the words Jesus Christ, do not let someone else interpret for you please use own
judgment when reading scriptures.

Chris, May the lord open your heart to the absolute truths of the words of our Lord Jesus Christ son of the living GOD, peace.


JF
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#3
#3
Jesusfollower said:
Hello Chris, Paul was a self proclaimed apostle, even boasting to be the better one of the apostles. The true apostles were the ones personally appointed by Jesus Christ son of GOD himself. The true apostle of Christ, lived with him and were thought by him. It was not the case with paul The contradiction you mention in james is very real and only one of many and cannot be reconciled with the words of Paul. Paul in his writings contradicts himself and most importantly contradicts Christ in reference to the law. This cannot be denied in any way!

You have a choice to make, the truth of Christ of the words of Paul. Please test and verify the teachings of Christ and the true apostle against Paul's and prove me wrong. You will not be able to. You can start with James writings that align with Christ words but not with Paul's. Often, there are serious flaw in your comprehension of scriptures regarding the law, and works that I cannot comprehend. I have a feeling you have been mislead from the truth by false teachers and I fear for you. Your only teacher should be the words Jesus Christ, do not let someone else interpret for you please use own
judgment when reading scriptures.

Chris, May the lord open your heart to the absolute truths of the words of our Lord Jesus Christ son of the living GOD, peace.


JF
Click to expand...
😨
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#4
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#4
GRACE_ambassador said:
"
...“Paul, an apostle, ( not of men, neither by man,​
but By Jesus Christ, and God the Father, Who​
Raised Him from the dead; )” (Gal. 1:1)...​

...As you read these opening words, you can almost hear the thunder in the
apostle’s voice as he declares in his opening salvo...

...Saul, a name that means desired...after he got saved, he began to go
by the name of Paul instead (Acts 13:9), a name that means small...Saul
no longer wanted to be desired of men; he now wanted to appear small in
their eyes that they might rather desire The LORD!...

...are you still seeking to be desired of men?...

...most Christians know that Paul asserts that salvation is by Grace through faith
without works (Rom. 4:5), but they also know that Chief Apostle James is just as
adamant that “faith without works is dead” (James 2:20).

So to homogenize these two opposite and contradictory messages they conclude
that Paul is talking about justification before God while James is addressing the
issue of justification before men, even though The LORD never asked anyone to
be justified before men—in fact, He condemned it (Luke 16:15)!

And on and on it goes, as futile attempts are made to try to blend Paul’s unique
message with the teachings of The LORD’s chiefest apostles, the other writers of
the New Testament. How much easier it would be to just acknowledge the
distinctive apostleship and message of the Apostle Paul—and how much
more Scriptural!...
...
Click to expand...
Paul was made an apostle by the Lord. He was hand picked by Jesus to be an apostle, as Christ handpicked the others. Paul tells us he was not taught by man but by Jesus Christ. Galatians 1:11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Both Paul and James spoke the truth from the Lord. It is true that God looks at our faith when God saves us, it is also true that God looks at our works to determine our faith. These truths are separate from each other, they do not relate to each other.
 
GracethroughfaithinChrist

GracethroughfaithinChrist

Senior Member
#5
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
#5
No doubt about Paul being an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God.

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

1 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Peter 3:15-16
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Sadly some here continue to wrest (distort/twist) the Scriptures to their own destruction.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#6
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#6
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This is 100% true and seems to contradict James. Until the next verse.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


So what does this mean? How is Salvation not of works but faith is?

Paul is showing that Salvation, while not of works, RESULTS in something.



Even though the faith that leads to Christ must WORK in order to be effective, it is not this work that results in Salvation.

That is about the best way to reconcile the messages of Paul and James.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#7
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
6,529
113
#7
My personal guide in this question of faith and works is from Jesus Yeshua when He told us , taught us all, the parable of the talents. Some have more faith than others while some less, but they all increased by their own works given them, except , of course for the one who buried his faith in the soil.
 
J

Jesusfollower

Active member
#8
Oct 21, 2021
352
195
43
jamaica
#8
Blik said:
Paul was made an apostle by the Lord. He was hand picked by Jesus to be an apostle, as Christ handpicked the others. Paul tells us he was not taught by man but by Jesus Christ. Galatians 1:11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Both Paul and James spoke the truth from the Lord. It is true that God looks at our faith when God saves us, it is also true that God looks at our works to determine our faith. These truths are separate from each other, they do not relate to each other.
Click to expand...
how do you explain all the contradictions between paul and Jesus teachings? About the law for example?
 
B

billabong

Member
#10
Jun 5, 2018
92
59
18
#10
Jesusfollower said:
Hello Chris, Paul was a self proclaimed apostle, even boasting to be the better one of the apostles. The true apostles were the ones personally appointed by Jesus Christ son of GOD himself. The true apostle of Christ, lived with him and were thought by him. It was not the case with paul The contradiction you mention in james is very real and only one of many and cannot be reconciled with the words of Paul. Paul in his writings contradicts himself and most importantly contradicts Christ in reference to the law. This cannot be denied in any way!

You have a choice to make, the truth of Christ of the words of Paul. Please test and verify the teachings of Christ and the true apostle against Paul's and prove me wrong. You will not be able to. You can start with James writings that align with Christ words but not with Paul's. Often, there are serious flaw in your comprehension of scriptures regarding the law, and works that I cannot comprehend. I have a feeling you have been mislead from the truth by false teachers and I fear for you. Your only teacher should be the words Jesus Christ, do not let someone else interpret for you please use own
judgment when reading scriptures.

Chris, May the lord open your heart to the absolute truths of the words of our Lord Jesus Christ son of the living GOD, peace.


JF
Click to expand...
Paul's epistles are the inspired words of God.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#11
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#11
Jesusfollower said:
how do you explain all the contradictions between paul and Jesus teachings? About the law for example?
Click to expand...
If your understandings sees contradictions in the word of God, it is not that God contradicts himself, it is in the understanding of what God tells us. It requires searching His word.
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#12
Mar 28, 2019
2,026
1,512
113
#12
GRACE_ambassador said:
"
​
So to homogenize these two opposite and contradictory messages they conclude
that Paul is talking about justification before God while James is addressing the
issue of justification before men, even though The LORD never asked anyone to
be justified before men—in fact, He condemned it (Luke 16:15)!
Click to expand...
wrong again. you need to stop listening to these pastors from this group.

there is no problem. even paul talks about "faith that worketh by love"

Jesus spoke about it in the parable of the sower.

you cant claim to have faith and nothing has changed. thats what james is talking about. and paul agrees with him, try 1 cor 6:9 or any of the verses where paul talks about all things have become new. its in every book of the new testament this idea.
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#13
#13
Jesusfollower said:
Hello Chris, Paul was a self proclaimed apostle, even boasting to be the better one of the apostles. The true apostles were the ones personally appointed by Jesus Christ son of GOD himself. The true apostle of Christ, lived with him and were thought by him. It was not the case with paul The contradiction you mention in james is very real and only one of many and cannot be reconciled with the words of Paul. Paul in his writings contradicts himself and most importantly contradicts Christ in reference to the law. This cannot be denied in any way!

You have a choice to make, the truth of Christ of the words of Paul. Please test and verify the teachings of Christ and the true apostle against Paul's and prove me wrong. You will not be able to. You can start with James writings that align with Christ words but not with Paul's. Often, there are serious flaw in your comprehension of scriptures regarding the law, and works that I cannot comprehend. I have a feeling you have been mislead from the truth by false teachers and I fear for you. Your only teacher should be the words Jesus Christ, do not let someone else interpret for you please use own
judgment when reading scriptures.

Chris, May the lord open your heart to the absolute truths of the words of our Lord Jesus Christ son of the living GOD, peace.


JF
Click to expand...
So you reject most of the New Testament as inspired Scripture.
You have serious issues with your understanding.
Everyone should ignore everything you say.
 
J

Jesusfollower

Active member
#14
Oct 21, 2021
352
195
43
jamaica
#14
No problem if you want to ignore me, please do so. as for ignoring most of the new testament is is not so.

Jf
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
#15
Feb 22, 2021
2,960
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113
Midwest
#15
LoveBrokeThru

LoveBrokeThru

Active member
#16
Mar 17, 2022
141
77
28
#16
GRACE_ambassador said:
"
​

So to homogenize these two opposite and contradictory messages they conclude
that Paul is talking about justification before God while James is addressing the
issue of justification before men,
..
Click to expand...
Actually James says nothing about being "Justified" before other people, including believers.
What He says, is..... "i'll show YOU my faith by my works".
So, that has nothing to do with "justification by faith" that God requires, and Paul preaches//teaches as "Pauline Theology".

James is addressing a back slidden, cold, Christian, who has left first love, is preoccupied with works and commandments and Moses Law, , and whose faith is dead as a result of their = legalism.
So, Jame is discussing LEGIT = "fruit bearing", that is a spiritual situation, that is to be revealed in front of others.. as proof you are a real believer.
That is not the same as faking fruit, and trying to sound spiritual.
 
NotmebutHim

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
#17
May 17, 2015
2,920
1,591
113
47
#17
It would be helpful if we considered Matthew 5, Acts 15 and Galatians 3 together. We have to let "Scripture interpret Scripture".

Jesus' words in Matthew 5 regarding the Mosaic Law were directed at a (mostly) Jewish audience. He pointed out that He did not come to destroy the Law, but to fulfil it.

In Acts 15, the Church leaders decided that Gentiles should not be bound to the Mosaic Law, but rather they should observe these four things: don't eat meat that has been sacrificed to idols, avoid sexual immorality, do not eat blood and do not eat anything that has been strangled.

In Galatians 3, Paul, speaking to Gentiles, wrote that the Law doesn't make us righteous before God, but rather our faith & trust in Christ.

So, Jesus' and Paul's words regarding the Law work together, not against each other.
 
ChristianMystic

ChristianMystic

Banned
#18
Jul 14, 2022
57
18
8
#18
GRACE_ambassador said:
"
...“Paul, an apostle, ( not of men, neither by man,​
but By Jesus Christ, and God the Father, Who​
Raised Him from the dead; )” (Gal. 1:1)...​

...As you read these opening words, you can almost hear the thunder in the
apostle’s voice as he declares in his opening salvo...

...Saul, a name that means desired...after he got saved, he began to go
by the name of Paul instead (Acts 13:9), a name that means small...Saul
no longer wanted to be desired of men; he now wanted to appear small in
their eyes that they might rather desire The LORD!...

...are you still seeking to be desired of men?...

...most Christians know that Paul asserts that salvation is by Grace through faith
without works (Rom. 4:5), but they also know that Chief Apostle James is just as
adamant that “faith without works is dead” (James 2:20).

So to homogenize these two opposite and contradictory messages they conclude
that Paul is talking about justification before God while James is addressing the
issue of justification before men, even though The LORD never asked anyone to
be justified before men—in fact, He condemned it (Luke 16:15)!

And on and on it goes, as futile attempts are made to try to blend Paul’s unique
message with the teachings of The LORD’s chiefest apostles, the other writers of
the New Testament. How much easier it would be to just acknowledge the
distinctive apostleship and message of the Apostle Paul—and how much
more Scriptural!...
"
(R Kurth)

FULL study link

View attachment 241443

GRACE And Peace...
Click to expand...
All I can say is that I feel the Spirit of God reveals to me that both statements are true: we are redeemed through faith, but if we do not bear the fruit of good works, we lie to ourselves that we have faith. Faith is the operative saving influence; works is the proof of faith. What is so hard for any Christian in the Spirit to understand?
 
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