Dispensationalism...

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

this is not that Jerusalem.

You need to learn to differentiate between the two.

... that's right so you are stewardshipist are you? or do you prefer administrationalist?

You guys have always to go outside scripture to try and prove your case ...

LOL!!!

You might wanna read a newspaper or two!
Oh that's right, many antisemites don't believe they're REAL Jews living in the land, CALLED Israel, TODAY.

is Israel today the land God gave to Abrahm?

“Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: ( the condition “ you trust me and do this “)


and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:

and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the condition is faith , to hear God telling you some thy king that’s going to bless you and believe what he’s telling you. The condition is faith

“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:8‬ ‭

Abraham is walking by faith God told him leave your current homeland and I’ll lead you to a better place and I’ll bless you in all these ways

Like Abraham first heard the gospel ( Gods word of instruction and promise blessing to him ) we have to hear what Jesus said to have faith this is going to teach us to leave the service of sin and walk by faith into the promised land


“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to accept Gods offer To save us , the offer is what Jesus said just as it was to Abraham it was what was said to him that’s the closest diction whatever God says will save us , that’s exactly what will save us

for instance do we need to repent to be saved ?

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

really though ?

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But Paul would never agree , nor would
He give a deeper understanding of it

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:

but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members ( your body ) as instruments of righteousness unto God.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,

but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:12-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul taught as much about repentance and obedience as anyone the conditions are what we learn and can hear and believe of what God said will save us the more we know , the more we are held to account to walk in that faith

like Abraham d all who believe God were of course going to accept the things he said to do , and not do if he’s promising us eternal Life he gets to set the conditions because he’s the one giving the gift we’re supposed to hear and rejoice and believe

Gen 15:
12 As the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell on Abram. And behold, dreadful and great darkness fell upon him. 13 Then the Lord said to Abram, “Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years. 14 But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age. 16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”


17 When the sun had gone down and it was dark, behold, a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch passed between these pieces. 18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give[c] this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, 19 the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites.”


Please tell me the condition..

do you understand what happened here?? This is not the norm. Usually BOTH parties walk between.. confirming a dual covenant, If one person breaks the covenant, then the other is released from fulfilling it

did abraham walk down?

what did Abraham confirm and promise in this covenant God made between him and the children of Israel?

the land he have to Abrams seed ?

“And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not their's, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; and also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: the Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭15:13-15, 18-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When all that happened just before they entered the promised land he gave them a covenant law

“Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; a blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:

and a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

For ye shall pass over Jordan to go in to possess the land which the LORD your God giveth you, and ye shall possess it, and dwell therein. And ye shall observe to do all the statutes and judgments which I set before you this day.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-28, 31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.



But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: that thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they did everything he said would cause the covenant to become a curse rather than a blessing

Later after many generations of this from that covenant warning

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

…Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6, 17, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a covenant has to be based on what the two parties said that’s what a covenant is this one could have been a blessing or a curse once he gave them the land and the law of thier covenant that is the law of thier land

If anyone wanted to know exactly what Israel’s covenant promises are , nd the covenant regarding the land given to abrams seed it’s all written down from genesis 12 , To Deuteronomy 34 if we conclude it’s “ conditionless “ I’m not sure what covenant were talking about regarding thier land

Abraham received the land of promise and becomes Ferber of many nations through Christ that heavenly City Jesus offers is Abraham’s promised land

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬

we’re being saved from this

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

(and promised us this )

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a new thing that’s redemption from the curse of the breaking of the prior salvation from what the old earthly covenant brought , into the kingdom that’s “not of this world “

The changing font size makes reading very difficult .

you understand Israel’s children are Jacobs sons right ? And Abraham is jacobs grandfather ?


“Please tell me the condition..”

the condition is Moses law that’s the covenant law of that land ……..

Abraham’s covenant comes with Jesus and the gospel not the law of the land of Israel

two different covenants seems as if your making them Into one

“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:22, 24-26, 28, 30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the ot was about this world , Abraham’s seed of promise is actually Jesus ,

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so the promises are for Abraham’s seed born of the spirit and not those of the flesh born here are Abraham’s children

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

not the promise we find in Moses words in the law , but the promise of the new things Christ promises

why would we keep looking at the old when we’re promised new ?

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭

this is our promised land this is Abraham’s and his spiritual seed of promises land


“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


That’s the land of Abraham’s eternal covenant

yes it does leave people a reason to avoid what it says though seems like a good loophole

I asked you to show me in that passage where a condition was set. that is where the covenant was made where is the condition

Lev 26 (moses law) gives conditions for them to ENJOY what is theirs. It is not a condition for it BEING Theirs.. even today, the land is theirs according to the covenant

No, they were not carried off into captivity because their covenant relationship based on the Law of Moses ended forever with the destruction of their temple, leaving room for individual Jews to come to Christ only.

Old covenant Israel is gone forever because we have a new covenant that reaches out to the entire world. This covenant greatly exceeds the old from beginning to end. The terms of such covenant are found in Heb. 8:7-12. This covenant is based on what Christ has done on our behalf while the old was based on personal obedience to the law. We fulfill the requirements of the new covenant through faith in Christ which carries us out to the end of time and beyond.

lol if this was true, it ended when Babylon destroyed their temple..

No one was ever saved by the temple sacrifices.. NO ONE

Old covenant Israel is gone forever because we have a new covenant that reaches out to the entire world. This covenant greatly exceeds the old from beginning to end. The terms of such covenant are found in Heb. 8:7-12. This covenant is based on what Christ has done on our behalf while the old was based on personal obedience to the law. We fulfill the requirements of the new covenant through faith in Christ which carries us out to the end of time and beyond.

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Old covenant Israel was not according to the law. The law was their tutor to lead them to christ. While they failed to see him when he came. They will see him one day. and when they do. they will all be saved, and continue in their mission given them by God.

this is bordering on slander my friend.

If your not going to listen to what we are saying, I suggest you back out of the conversation. Accusing someone of this when it is not true is slanderous, and takes away from your reputation.

Beckie, do you know that heavenly Jerusalem does NOT cancel Jerusalem on earth after it is redeemed and restored?

And that the New Jerusalem (heavenly Jerusalem) will become the heavenly body which will give light to Jerusalem on earth (as well as the saved nations surrounding it)?

Instead of arguing with Scripture, Christians should be spending their time carefully studying what has already been revealed but is generally ignored.