Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Our problem is we think eternal life and Jesus are two different thing. Eternal life always In Jesus Christ, As long as we hold Jesus we have it. You can not separate Eternal life and Jesus. I reject Jesus and have eternal life- It does not work that way.
1 John 5:12- He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
John 3:15- so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life
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I agree that salvation can not be lost. Once saved always saved is right. But after getting saved, If we can not Reject Jesus, Than God is doing something out of his nature. He is forcing his will to us. I know that He can force us, but according to his nature he gives free will and freedom. So he will not force us. That's why I am saying salvation can not be lost but can be thrown away. I threw something does not mean I have lost it, I know where to look, I know where to go and pick it up. Nobody can pick my salvation but me.

P.S- My comment for every bible narration is- If anybody narrate bible verse which is opposite of Gods nature, than there is a problem. such as- (God is sovereign, omnipotent, Just, peace, all loving, believe in freedom, free in nature, good, friendly, has holy anger, all knowing etc ... ... ... ) So if any narration is not harmonized with Gods nature, I will not agree with it completely. How many literal Bible verse you show me it does not matter as long as it do not match with Gods nature.

Thank you for understanding.
Nope

We have to take jesus at his word or else we will take our eyes off of him and put it on ourself

Our hope of faith is that we have eternal life.

Titus paul tells us the hope of eternal life., which God, who can not lie, promised before time began.

John says he wrote a whole book so we can know we have eternal life in our possession and by it believe in his name..

I can not put myself in God. God must pull me to himself. He adopts me. He keeps me. I have no power to do anything.

If eternal life is based on me putting myself in christ. then I have the power of eternal life. Not god.

That is works my friend.
 

arpon

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2017
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Nope

We have to take jesus at his word or else we will take our eyes off of him and put it on ourself

Our hope of faith is that we have eternal life.

Titus paul tells us the hope of eternal life., which God, who can not lie, promised before time began.

John says he wrote a whole book so we can know we have eternal life in our possession and by it believe in his name..

I can not put myself in God. God must pull me to himself. He adopts me. He keeps me. I have no power to do anything.

If eternal life is based on me putting myself in christ. then I have the power of eternal life. Not god.

That is works my friend.
You are Exactly right. In Christ we have eternal life. I agree with you that it is based on us putting ourselves in Christ. Christ is the Tree we are the vine. So as long we are into the tree we are in eternal life. But as long as we are not within the tree, though we are the vine but we do not have the life, cause Jesus himself is eternal life. He gives us eternal life actually means He gives himself to us. Jesus=eternal life is the gift of our father.
But we can throw Jesus/eternal life away because God do not work opposite of his nature. If you say you will not throw away Jesus/eternal life, no problem. But If you say you can not throw away eternal life, there is Gods nature related problem cause in that case you are only his slave but not children.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You are Exactly right. In Christ we have eternal life. I agree with you that it is based on us putting ourselves in Christ. Christ is the Tree we are the vine. So as long we are into the tree we are in eternal life. But as long as we are not within the tree, though we are the vine but we do not have the life, cause Jesus himself is eternal life. He gives us eternal life actually means He gives himself to us. Jesus=eternal life is the gift of our father.
But we can throw Jesus/eternal life away because God do not work opposite of his nature. If you say you will not throw away Jesus/eternal life, no problem. But If you say you can not throw away eternal life, there is Gods nature related problem cause in that case you are only his slave but not children.
John 6

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

You can't throw away eternal life. Because you could never earn it.

We are predestined because God knows who are his. and God gave them to Jesus out of this knowledge/

Saying we can change and have to tell God to take his gift back is to say God gave a gift not knowing that person would stop believeing and deny him

Thats dangerous my friend
 

arpon

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2017
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John 6

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

You can't throw away eternal life. Because you could never earn it.

We are predestined because God knows who are his. and God gave them to Jesus out of this knowledge/

Saying we can change and have to tell God to take his gift back is to say God gave a gift not knowing that person would stop believeing and deny him

Thats dangerous my friend
Thank you, It was really helpful for me to ponder about Gods freedom. I really grateful to you cause you have deepened my thought more about this topic.

... I will by no means cast out.- Yes, Jesus will by no means cast out. I agree with that verse. But the problem is we are thinking only partially, not the whole side. If you only take it literally without the nature of God, than you are rejecting some part of God, which is freedom of choice. If one wants to be cast out than what? will Jesus forcefully stop him or not? If Jesus see him as slave he will stop him, If Jesus see him as child of God and slave than he will let him out, as simple as that. So when we combine the verse with Gods nature than we will understand that Jesus will not cast out as long his people are willing to be with him. So If we cast out the nature of God from the scene, than your version of OSAS is totally correct and in that version we are his puppets, slave but not children who have freedom of choice.

Bye the way. Now I am more strong in my believe. Thank you again. You might want to be slave, Its OK, But I am not. I am Gods child so are you and I will be Gods child and slave even after the final hour. I have no intension to be Gods Slave only who do not have any freedom. (If you can state and connect your OSAS with Gods nature and show me, I will totally ready to accept that. Cause It really will be awesome, Who wants to lose salvation? no one, at least not me. But the reality does not seemed like that, our imagination is seemed like that.) :) Nice talking to you. My apology if I hurt your feelings.
 
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9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Learn to read my friend

Jesus did not contradict himself and claim we can only be saved by belief in him, then say we must endure to the end if we really want salvation

I knew that would be your response if we were lucky enough to get one.

There is nothing in that reference that limits it to just the trib. period. Look at 9...then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you....
That is citing the same as with tribulation and refers to time before.
There are other references...you can search and find them.
 

arpon

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2017
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Hi mate,
I was on the opposite of the OSOS theory. But somehow recently I do not have peace with it. I don't know why; I just don't feel peace. Now I feel at peace with OSAS. I am sorry for arguing about it with you. If I ever found out how OSAS is true, I might share it with you in the future. I do not rely on feelings, so I will try to find the cause. thank you.
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
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There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.
The Bible says that a person that is saved can fall away from the truth and lose salvation if they do not correct it.

A person that is saved should know the truth that they have to abstain from sinning and act Christlike by the Spirit to be right with God and there is no excuse.

The Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts and show the ways of the Spirit and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they can handle and will give them a way out of the temptation so they can bear it.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

If a person that is saved does not continue in the goodness of God they will be cut off like the Hebrews that did not abide by the truth were cut off from the covenant with Israel.

It says that the Gentiles that are saved should fear because of this for they have the responsibility to be led by the Spirit and be Christlike and if not they will not be cut off.

If it is OSAS why would they have to fear.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Some people have a form of living for God but deny the Spirit leading them and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God by doing right but they live in sin and believe they are alright with God for they are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth that they have to be Christlike to be right with God.

These people seem like they were never saved when they first confessed Christ for they did not understand that they have to turn away from all sin being led of the Spirit but they lived in sin and thought they were alright with God and could not fall.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

That is the danger of OSAS that some people will live in sin and believe they are alright because they do not think they can fall.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If a person lives in sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away because God will not take a sin away from them that they are holding on to.

And repenting of sin and holding on to the sin is not repenting of the sin and a person knows if they still want to do the sin after they repent.

When we repent of a sin we have to mean it that we do not want that sin and abstain from that sin or it is not repenting of that sin.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

This is speaking about people that have been saved but after a while they went back to sinning like a pig that is clean goes back to playing in the mud.

It says it would of been better if they have not known the truth than to turn from the truth which means they will not be saved if they live in sin.

This can be corrected by repenting of sin and allowing the Spirit to lead you to be Christlike.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This is about people that believed the Gospel of Christ but stopped believing in the truth and believed an alternate reality whether a different religion, or became an atheist, which is indicated by them falling away.

These people cannot come back to the truth if they fall away for God will not allow them to go through the process of being saved again.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

This is an example of some falling away which I believe this is speaking of the new age movement because it says it will come out at the latter times which is now which we can see it is the end time because the world can communicate with each other.

Which Daniel said he did not understand what was told him but was told to go his way for they will understand at the end time because many shall run to and fro, advanced travel, and knowledge shall be increased, advanced technology, which then the saints can then see, hear, and know what is going on around the world and how it is possible for them to come together because they can communicate with each other.

The only thing I can see is the new age movement that interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior but a good teacher and love and evolved to be an ascended master, and believe in no personal God.

Which some shall depart from the faith and follow the new age movement interpretation of the Bible and stop believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior and a personal God and will fall away and cannot come back to salvation.

How did they depart from the faith if a person cannot fall away and if they have faith then they were in the truth.

But if a person is in the new age movement and then believes the truth that Jesus is Lord and Savior then they can be saved for they did not depart from the truth.

Now a lot of people that believe in OSAS might have confidence that they will not stop believing that Jesus is Lord and Savior and may stay the course but the Bible says that a person can fall away that was in the faith if they choose that.

And that is because God does not twist our arm to live for Him and we still have a choice to believe or not believe.

When the Bible says that the saints are predestined to salvation it does not mean that God chooses who will be saved and not saved in the beginning without their choice but means that God already had the plan to give salvation to the world before He laid down the foundation of the world.

But it is the same as the saints having salvation in the beginning for God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened.

Which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world, although they were future events.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

This salvation is to whoever wants this salvation.

We have a choice in our salvation because God's kingdom is true love, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice.

If you program your computer to say I love you does your computer really love you, and if you program your computer to say I hate you will you get mad and smash your computer.

We did not choose God but He chose us.

Many are called but few are chosen.

No person says Jesus is Lord but by the Spirit.

No person comes to the Son unless drawn by the Father.

Not many noble, not many mighty, not many wise according to the flesh are called.

When God calls a person according to their heart condition He will work in their life to get them to the truth but when they get to the door of truth they have to choose to go through the door but they would of not got to the door of truth if God did not intervene in their life.

A person that is saved can fall away from the truth if they decide to do that for if they do not continue in the goodness of God they will be cut off and some stop believing the truth and believe in an alternate belief and some did not repent properly when they first confessed Christ for they did not believe that their sins would cause them to lose salvation so they held on to sins.
 
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Hi mate,
I was on the opposite of the OSOS theory. But somehow recently I do not have peace with it. I don't know why; I just don't feel peace. Now I feel at peace with OSAS. I am sorry for arguing about it with you. If I ever found out how OSAS is true, I might share it with you in the future. I do not rely on feelings, so I will try to find the cause. thank you.
We find out why OSAS is true from the Bible.

Jesus tells us WHEN a person receives the gift of eternal life in John 5:24. “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Same teaching in John 3:15,16, 6:40, 47 as well.

Jesus tells us the result of being given the gift of eternal life in John 10:28.

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

So, everyone who has been given the gift of eternal life, which is WHEN they believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, they "shall never perish".

So said Jesus. Believe Him.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. " 1 Tim 4:16
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
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Oct 31, 2015
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There is only one group of people who will receive eternal salvation.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


Let’s say we just decide that because so and so has done us wrong, that we have decided to hate him. We have no longer chosen to obey the Lord’s command to love, and forgive.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


No murderer has eternal life remaining in him.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


“I know Him” means I have eternal life.


Those who say I have eternal life, but don’t obey Him, are liars and the truth is not in him.


Obeying Him is how we love; is the scriptural definition of love.


If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


His commandments are not burdensome.








Blessings to all.




JPT
 
Jan 31, 2021
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There is only one group of people who will receive eternal salvation.
That is the group who have been given the gift of eternal life by Jesus.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Red words is what Jesus does for believers.
Blue words is the result of what Jesus does. Eternal security.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9
This verse refers to those who believe the gospel, which is a command to obey. :)
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."
That verse does not say that they were never saved. It just says that they were not of us. Apostates are definitely not of us. Having said that, I'm sure that there are many pew-sitters that were never saved. This does not imply that those who are saved can never turn apostate. Also, God knows, in His foreknowledge, who will turn apostate and not endure to the end.

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."
This emphasizes the need to abide. It means that apostacy is a possibility for those who have not grown deeply in the Faith. I cannot imagine that one who has known Jesus in a real and loving way would turn away either. It is the difference between Judas and John.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand."
Amen! Salvation cannot be lost or stolen. It must be willfully casted away in order to commit apostacy.

Good post, RA. (y)
 
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That is the group who have been given the gift of eternal life by Jesus.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Red words is what Jesus does for believers.
Blue words is the result of what Jesus does. Eternal security.


This verse refers to those who believe the gospel, which is a command to obey. :)


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


The red words are the condition for receiving the blue words.




Let’s say we just decide that because so and so has done us wrong, that we have decided to hate him. We have no longer chosen to obey the Lord’s command to love, and forgive.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


No murderer has eternal life remaining in him.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


“I know Him” means I have eternal life.


Those who say I have eternal life, but don’t obey Him, are liars and the truth is not in him.


Obeying Him is how we love; is the scriptural definition of love.


If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


His commandments are not burdensome.





JLB
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
That is the group who have been given the gift of eternal life by Jesus.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Red words is what Jesus does for believers.
Blue words is the result of what Jesus does. Eternal security.


This verse refers to those who believe the gospel, which is a command to obey. :)
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9

The red words are the condition for receiving the blue words.
I already explained Heb 5:9. Are you purposely trying to refute John 10:28?

Let’s say we just decide that because so and so has done us wrong, that we have decided to hate him. We have no longer chosen to obey the Lord’s command to love, and forgive.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

No murderer has eternal life remaining in him.
My explanation will probably not sit well with you, but such is life. We know from John 10:28 that when Jesus gives eternal life, the recipient shall never perish. I believe that totally. Not like you do; half heartedly, with supposed examples where recipients DID perish.

The phrase "no murderer has eternal life abiding (NOT "remaining" as you wrote) in Him" requires an accurate meaning of "abiding". In John's writing, "abiding" is always about a reciprocal relationship. This is clearly what Jesus was talking about in John 15:4.

Since Christ IS eternal life, to say that someone does not have eternal life abiding in him is equivalent to saying that he does not have Christ abiding in him.

iow, to hate someone is equivalent to mental murder. Believers who hate others are committing mental murder, and are NOT abiding in Christ. They are OUT OF FELLOWSHIP with Him.

Thank you for the opportunity to explain an otherwise difficult and frequently misunderstood verse.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5
Many believers do not have "the truth in them". They are grossly ignorant of biblical teaching.

“I know Him” means I have eternal life.
OK.

Those who say I have eternal life, but don’t obey Him, are liars and the truth is not in him.
True. And those who have believed in Christ have been given eternal life and they shall never perish.

Obeying Him is how we love; is the scriptural definition of love.
Certainly.

If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15
Jesus is challenging believers to be obedient.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3
They aren't when the believer is in fellowship and filled with the Spirit.

His commandments are not burdensome.
Ditto here.

Can you explain HOW specfically to obey the command to be filled with the Spirit? Eph 5:18 is a command.

Keep in mind the commands to NOT grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit.

It is obvious that a believer who is either grieving or quenching the Spirit CANNOT be filled with the Spirit at the same time.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
That is the group who have been given the gift of eternal life by Jesus.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Red words is what Jesus does for believers.
Blue words is the result of what Jesus does. Eternal security.


This verse refers to those who believe the gospel, which is a command to obey. :)

I already explained Heb 5:9. Are you purposely trying to refute John 10:28?


My explanation will probably not sit well with you, but such is life. We know from John 10:28 that when Jesus gives eternal life, the recipient shall never perish. I believe that totally. Not like you do; half heartedly, with supposed examples where recipients DID perish.

The phrase "no murderer has eternal life abiding (NOT "remaining" as you wrote) in Him" requires an accurate meaning of "abiding". In John's writing, "abiding" is always about a reciprocal relationship. This is clearly what Jesus was talking about in John 15:4.

Since Christ IS eternal life, to say that someone does not have eternal life abiding in him is equivalent to saying that he does not have Christ abiding in him.

iow, to hate someone is equivalent to mental murder. Believers who hate others are committing mental murder, and are NOT abiding in Christ. They are OUT OF FELLOWSHIP with Him.

Thank you for the opportunity to explain an otherwise difficult and frequently misunderstood verse.


Many believers do not have "the truth in them". They are grossly ignorant of biblical teaching.


OK.


True. And those who have believed in Christ have been given eternal life and they shall never perish.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding (remaining) in him. 1 John 3:15


abide plainly means remain.

Denial is not a safe place to hide; it wont help you.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


A branch must remain connected to the Vine in order to have life.


Those who choose to hate their brother no longer have eternal life remaining in them.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


“I know Him” means I have eternal life.


Those who say I have eternal life, but don’t obey Him, are liars and the truth is not in him.


Obeying Him is how we love; is the scriptural definition of love.


If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


His commandments are not burdensome.




JPT
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


A branch must remain connected to the Vine in order to have life.


Those who choose to hate their brother no longer have eternal life remaining in them.
John 15:6 appears to be speaking of the same group described as being gathered and thrown into the fire, which are the tares in the parable of the tares. And, while it is true that a branch must remain in the Vine in order to have life, it is the Vinedresser that cuts off and/or grafts branches in or out of the root.

You concluded your post with by inserting "no longer" into the following verse you presented in introduction.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding (remaining) in him. 1 John 3:15
Yet, there is nothing in that verse that would suggest these once had eternal life abiding in them.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding (remaining) in him. 1 John 3:15
abide plainly means remain.
I already explained that to you. Didn't your read it? Your bad then.

Denial is not a safe place to hide; it wont help you.
Why are you denying the truth that I explained to you?

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Since you seem resistant to the principle, we are not in charge of our own salvation. So Jesus couldn't be referring to salvation when He said "if you abide in Me, and I in you".

Further, He was clear about the PURPOSE of abiding in Him: bearing fruit. That isn't a salvation issue at all.

So, as I already pointed out, Jesus was making a point about fellowship with Him. Only believers in fellowship with the Lord can bear fruit. And we know that believers are able to and DO grieve (Eph 4:30) and quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, which means they are NOT in fellowship with Him.

But your opinions are that salvation can be lost, so you read all these verses through those very dark lenses in order to support your very unbiblical views.

A branch must remain connected to the Vine in order to have life.
No verse says this. Again, take off those very dark lenses that you read the Bible with. A branch must be connected in order to bear fruit.

Those who choose to hate their brother no longer have eternal life remaining in them.
Ok, so you don't agree with Jesus then. That's your bad again.

Jesus taught very clearly that those who believe possess eternal life in John 5:24. This means that the MOMENT they believe they possess eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

So your opinions are in direct conflict with what Jesus taught. So I'm not interested in your unbiblical and ungodly opinions.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5
Let me add this: "He who says, I know him BUT does NOT BELIEVE what He teaches, is a LIAR and the truth is NOT in him."

Period.

“I know Him” means I have eternal life.
You don't know what Jesus said. Or you just don't believe Him.

Those who say I have eternal life, but don’t obey Him, are liars and the truth is not in him.
Wrong. When Jesus gives the gift of eternal life, they can't lose it because He said they shall never perish.

The ONLY WAY a person SHALL NOT PERISH is to possess eternal life.

Obeying Him is how we love; is the scriptural definition of love.
Correct.

If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

His commandments are not burdensome.
Correct.
 

Saul-to-Paul

Junior Member
Jun 5, 2017
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Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."
I told my soul to walk away from eternal life.🤣 That #*&% is hilarious.