Obedience Required?

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#61
Notice what is stated in verses 41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." (Acts 2)
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. praising God, and having favour with all the people.

…And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:37-42, 47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

hearing of faith hearing believing and acting upon that true belief

“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭

“He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭

There’s a flood coming , build an ark and be saved this is how to do it “ I believe and yes I will and yes I will be saved “

stretch out your hand and darkness will be upon the land three days Moses
“ I believe and yes I will and yes it will happen “

repent and be baptized for remission of sins in his name and you shall receive the gift of the holy ghost , “ I believe that and yes I will and yes I will receive the gift of remission of sins and the Holy Spirit will come into my heart “

faith hears what Gods saying d takes it as the truth the rest is just a response to that bekng authentic a tree with roots is a tree with fruits
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#62
The scripture you reference continues by expressing believing in Jesus Christ included acting in obedience to the command to be baptized:

"And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway." Acts 16:30-34
That's what saved people are supposed to do since John the Baptist and the Lord's example.
Forsake yes not the assembling of yourselves as the manner of some is...
is another of many commands that God's children should do, but that was not a command for the salvation of the lost or for those who are saved to maintain their salvation.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,026
5,215
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#63
That's what saved people are supposed to do since John the Baptist and the Lord's example.
Forsake yes not the assembling of yourselves as the manner of some is...
is another of many commands that God's children should do, but that was not a command for the salvation of the lost or for those who are saved to maintain their salvation.
he tells then about baptism for remission of sins

then says this

“And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:40-

they acted upon what they heard we could agree that something is true but those who act upon what is true re the ones who will benefit

we could all have the directions to a “wedding party “ written down but it’s only those who get dressed and follow the directions thy at arrive at the party the others are just choosing not to go
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,687
3,244
113
#64
I don't know why obedience wouldn't be required. He didn't give us suggestions but commandments.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,033
1,069
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#65
Was loving your neighbor also new?

What caused them to believe? Did they prick their own hearts? Did they give themselves ears to hear? Was the faith to believe their own faith or a given faith?
God is no respecter of persons. All will hear and must make their own choice whether to accept or reject the written word. Jesus made this point in John 12:48:

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,396
1,204
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#66
The kingdom of God has reference to Christ's church, which is one of many names that apply to the church. Some of those that will enter heaven will not be accepted as members of Christ's church, because of these practices.
The scripture actually says obedience brings about the reality of receiving the Holy Ghost, not the other way around:
"...the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:31-32
The unregenerate person will not obey a spiritual command from a spiritual God. 1 Cor 2:14 says that the unregenerate person cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness. Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,033
1,069
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#67
At Pentecost this was the already converted disciples that received the Holy Spirit as a group 'in the midst'.

This is not an account of salvation.

When an entire group receives the Holy Spirit in the NT this is something other than receiving salvation.

It's a church being formed.
Do you agree that the scripture below makes the point that God gives the Holy Ghost to those who obey Him?

"And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:32
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,396
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#68
The referenced scripture pertains to obedience that brings about one's spiritual rebirth: "Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:31-32

Acquiring one's spiritual rebirth involves being indwelt by the Holy Ghost. This comes about through obedience. Peter stated the requirements to those who believed in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection on the Day of Pentecost. The message involved being born both of water and Spirit. (Acts 2:38-40)

After being born again through belief and obedience to the God-given commands, individual's are then empowered to pursue a life acceptable to God through the indwelling Holy Ghost.

Before a person has been born again they have a carnal mind.(1 Cor 2:14). Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God; neither indeed can be.(Rom 8:7).
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#69
God is no respecter of persons. All will hear and must make their own choice whether to accept or reject the written word. Jesus made this point in John 12:48:

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."
What I'm asking is what leads one to believe. Is it your faith or Jesus ' faith? Is salvation a gift? Is grace a gift? Is faith a gift? If so, why do you add works?
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,033
1,069
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#70
At Pentecost this was the already converted disciples that received the Holy Spirit as a group 'in the midst'.

This is not an account of salvation.

When an entire group receives the Holy Spirit in the NT this is something other than receiving salvation.

It's a church being formed.
The group asked what was required of them. (Acts 2:36-37) If nothing but belief in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection was required Peter would have said so. He did not.

Peter stated that those present were to repent, and everyone of them was to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (water) and that they, too, would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The promise pertained to all those the Lord would call. (meaning all future generations) See Acts 2:41, it was only after believing Peter and obeying the commands that they were converted. "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,033
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#71
Of course it does. I'm saying it happens previous to salvation. You are saying after.
I am saying receiving the Holy Ghost is a necessary part of one's spiritual rebirth. Without the indwelling of the Holy Ghost a person is not a child of God. This is reflected in Paul's comment, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom. 8:9
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#72
I am saying receiving the Holy Ghost is a necessary part of one's spiritual rebirth. Without the indwelling of the Holy Ghost a person is not a child of God. This is reflected in Paul's comment, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom. 8:9
I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. Can you answer this one: do you believe the Holy Spirit takes up residence in the believer before or after he or she believes?
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,033
1,069
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#73
That's what saved people are supposed to do since John the Baptist and the Lord's example.
Forsake yes not the assembling of yourselves as the manner of some is...
is another of many commands that God's children should do, but that was not a command for the salvation of the lost or for those who are saved to maintain their salvation.
No one is saved without first repenting, having their sins washed away in obedience to God's command to submit to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus and being indwelt with the Holy Ghost. Obedience to this is what brings about the reality of being born again. Afterward the born again child of God is to pursue a Godly lifestyle.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,033
1,069
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#74
The unregenerate person will not obey a spiritual command from a spiritual God. 1 Cor 2:14 says that the unregenerate person cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness. Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
God calls all to repentance. It is after believing and accepting God's command to submit to water baptism and being filled with the Holy Ghost that one's spiritual eyes are open.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,033
1,069
113
#75
I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. Can you answer this one: do you believe the Holy Spirit takes up residence in the believer before or after he or she believes?
Paul answered that with his question to the Ephesus disciples; Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? (Acts 19:1-6) Also, the Samaritans believed and did not receive the Holy Ghost until days later. (Acts 8:12-18)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#76
Paul answered that with his question to the Ephesus disciples; Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? (Acts 19:1-6) Also, the Samaritans believed and did not receive the Holy Ghost until days later. (Acts 8:12-18)
Again thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
8,590
3,562
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#77
The scripture you reference continues by expressing believing in Jesus Christ included acting in obedience to the command to be baptized:

"And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway." Acts 16:30-34
So you think we need to...
1. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved".
2. Believe on " washed their stripes". AND
3. Believe on "baptized, he and all his, straightway"
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
8,590
3,562
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#79
he tells then about baptism for remission of sins

then says this

“And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:40-

they acted upon what they heard we could agree that something is true but those who act upon what is true re the ones who will benefit

we could all have the directions to a “wedding party “ written down but it’s only those who get dressed and follow the directions thy at arrive at the party the others are just choosing not to go
So you believe that their souls were saved eternally by themselves?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,396
1,204
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#80
God calls all to repentance. It is after believing and accepting God's command to submit to water baptism and being filled with the Holy Ghost that one's spiritual eyes are open.

Am I supposed to take your word for this, instead of basing it on what the scriptures say?