Struggling reading through romans 8 & 9 and Calvinism.

I only ask you one question, even if you prove that only certain people can be saved, then what is God doing all this for? Is evangelism still necessary? Someone could have been saved without The Gospel,but God wanted it.

Only those who choose to listen can hear.

There certainly will be Tribulation Saints to be gathered, but let's take a closer look at your verse...

Mark 13:27
“And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”

Some are already in Heaven. They were raptured seven years prior. Those in heaven will be united with tribulation saints and then spend the next 1000 years reigning on Earth with Christ Jesus.

um.... pot/kettle?

Welcome to the club… lol. Once seen we see it everywhere.
Not just to you but to all who read this.

A God centered view of creation is imperative. God created the heavens and earth and those who dwell within for His glory. Let that sink in. The triune God already had perfect company he didn’t need us or the angels.

The perfect Father so loved the perfect Son he promised a people redeemed by the work of the Holy Spirit. A people quickened by the Spirit who would dedicate their lives, even unto death, to become as the perfect Son that they may worship Him for eternity. Creation is a love gift between the triune God, we’re just the beneficiaries. All is for God’s glory. ALL!

Truly understanding this God centered gospel will eventually answer all questions and result in sound doctrine.

All others will essentially have a man centered gospel (a works gospel) that will lead to all sorts of false doctrine.

Remember, all false religions can be identified by the requirement of works. Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Jehovah witness etc. require action of man to earn salvation. Any gospel that requires action of man is a gospel of satan.

God requires about the least thing He could. He requires people to have faith.

That's the true gospel, that we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ and what He accomplished for us.

I find it best to follow what the Word of God states from a reliable source unlike the Textus Receptus KJV.

In proper translations we have commands to Submit to God and Resist Evil which is by human Will ONLY.

We have commands to Humble ourselves to God which only happens by human participation.

And a Verse from the Gospel of John blatantly showing us it must be OUR OWN WILL to do God's Will.

Clearly there is a definite False Doctrine that teaches man has no participation involved in Accepting and Following God.

Thank God for 3rd Century Greek Text that's full of the Truth!!

Not by works,It was before you believed in Jesus Christ, and it is still after you believe by works.Get rid of the habit in this world and become holy with faith.

Faith in God,with all your heart, mind and soul.

Romans
9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
(Or if I have not committed murder, I have not committed adultery, I have not broken any law, but I have no love of God, and that is no righteousness in me.)

Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
(Showing God's love to others, I think, is a very basic principle)


Some things are easy to say, but difficult to understand and do.

I'll stop talking more here.

Quaint....but no. There are councils and judgements of God that are far beyond our scrutiny, though declared.

You cannot even read my mind, let alone God's.

Rom 11:33
Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

Rom 11:34
“For who has known the mind of the LORD?
Or who has become His counselor?”

I interpret them in harmony with all of the other scriptures. Your problem is interpreting all of the salvation scriptures as referencing eternal salvation, resulting in teaching you that eternal salvation is accomplished by your good works. Greek interpretation of salvation=deliverance, saved=delivered, save=deliver.

When a born again child of God "comes unto the knowledge of the truth", they are saved=delivered from their ignorance (Rom 10:1-3).

Peter is addressing them that have obtained like precious faith (2Pet 1:1). Peter is giving them a warning, including himself by using the word "usward", that when they commit a sin they separate themselves from their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent.

Perish=death=separation.


The wicked has reference to disobedient born again children of God who are of the house of Israel, who has the promise of an eternal inheritance.

The "world" in these scriptures has reference to the world of believers that God loves. Their is also a world that God hates:

John 17:9 - I pray not for the "world", but for the which thou hast given me.

John 17:14 - I have given them thy word, and the "world" hath hated them, because they are not of the "world".

Rom 9:11 plainly points out that God did not choose Jacob over Esau, because of their works, because neither had yet been born, having done no good or evil.

Salvation is not accomplished by good works, it is accomplished by deciding to believe the Gospel, deciding to have faith in Christ.

The point was that God wants all people to be saved.

Peter is saying that God is not willing that any should perish (die forever), but that all should come to repentance.

You're saying that because if you accepted it as it reads, it contradicts what you believe.

God loves the world. Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world. God wants everyone to be saved. It's up to each person as to whether they want to believe the gospel, or not. Anyone has the capacity to make that decision.

These scriptures in Romans are referencing spiritual Israel, which is of Jacob as Israel, and not the nation of Israel. Even though most of spiritual Israel were disobedient to God, they still retain their eternal inheritance. There is a remnant of spiritual Israel who have stayed obedient to God's laws.

Again you are giving your preconceived comments without scripture back up.

Here you go, Forest:

Eph 1:13; 2:8-9

1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9

2 Pet 3:9. Just read the verse.

You don't believe God wants everyone to be saved. The Bible says He does (1 Tim 2:4).

John 3:16

1 John 2:2

1 Tim 2:4

John 3:16; Rom 10:9-10; Eph 1:13; Acts 16:30-31

Romans
9:33
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

This is as far as I can go. You're really gonna stumble over a stumblingstone.Rom 9:11

God instructs those that have been revealed, by the revelation of the indwelling Holy Spirit, the knowledge of the truth, to preach to the "lost sheep of the house of spiritual Israel" (Matt 10:6) They are born again, and have a zeal of God, but are believing in the old law of works to deliver them eternally.(Rom 10:1-3).

The "promise" of the Holy Spirit is not the Holy Spirit itself (verse 9). The promise is the earnest of our inheritance. (verse 14).

I just want to tell you right now, when you look anyone in the face, just tell them that "your SINS are forgiven, thank you Jesus Christ."

Our days are few, and are far better spent in doing good, than in disputing over matters which are, at best, of minor importance. The old schoolmen did a world of mischief by their incessant discussion of subjects of no practical importance; and our Churches suffer much from petty wars over abstruse points and unimportant questions. After everything has been said that can be said, neither party is any the wiser, and therefore the discussion no more promotes knowledge than love, and it is foolish to sow in so barren a field. Questions upon points wherein Scripture is silent; upon mysteries which belong to God alone; upon prophecies of doubtful interpretation; and upon mere modes of observing human ceremonials, are all foolish, and wise men avoid them. Our business is neither to ask nor answer foolish questions, but to avoid them altogether; and if we observe the apostle's precept (Titus 3:8) to be careful to maintain good works, we shall find ourselves far too much occupied with profitable business to take much interest in unworthy, contentious, and needless strivings.

-Spurgeon