Struggling reading through romans 8 & 9 and Calvinism.

Not trying to answer for cv5, but something for you to think about; Many are called as God's elect, (the wide gate), but few of God's elect are chosen to to be revealed the truths of Jesus doctrine, by the revelation of the Holy Spirit (the strait gate). that leads them to that abundant, and joyful life in this present world.

I don't know the specifics about how Calvinists approach the topic, but an effective way to approach this dilemma in defense of determinism would be to state that:

1) "people who would believe in Him would be His people" (same point from your post)
2) That God put into these people a nature that causes them to believe or be irresistably drawn towards belief when put into the correct circumstances
3) God is able to put anyone into correct circumstances in order to activate this nature, but for those without this nature there are no circumstances that could turn them to belief (cf. Parable of wheat and tares)
4) Therefore Saul was chosen from the foundation of the world to have a predetermined path that eventually led to his state of belief, because it was in his nature to do so, provided the right push. And it served God's purposes to have Saul as an antiChrist prior to his conversion. Therefore, prior to being Paul, Saul was still an unrealized chosen person for salvation and had always been a chosen person.
5) While the nature would determine belief, the free will in life would still influence one's works in life that are tried by fire (1 Cor 3:15).

I think there are different ways to look at it, but at this point I don't see (soft) determinism as something that would be inconsistent with scripture. But it's entirely possible I'm overlooking something. Feedback is always appreciated!

Not trying to answer for cv5, but something for you to think about; Many are called as God's elect, (the wide gate), but few of God's elect are chosen to to be revealed the truths of Jesus doctrine, by the revelation of the Holy Spirit (the strait gate). that leads them to that abundant, and joyful life in this present world.

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it:

for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If a person accepts things like this as truth , what would happen to thier thinking ?

To generalize and say that God, then predetermines the salvation of everyone else, may be over reaching.
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Election/predestination is boilerplate biblical doctrine beyond all refutation.

It prevails despite fallen man's failure to understand it.

wonderful thoughts

“It has taken me most of my life to have that kind of faith in him. And I still get attacked with that often. But the thing I can't get out of my heart, is that our Creator visited us, and people crucified him. Dear Jesus. If we would only view all sin that way, we would never do it.”

yes i agree completely I think the process is a life long one we are planted and we begin to sprout , then grow and produce a stock and leaves , and later buds begin to form and still later they mature and eventually there is a fruitful tree that produces good fruit but I also have grown over a lifetime of persevering

sometimes I fell flat on my behind and failed God miserably other times I walked along in step other times I took a wrong path other times I just got lazy other times I worked hard and tried to run

what I know now is all the while God was trying and testing me and repairing me and healing me. So from the day I believed I was on a path there were many valleys and hills ahead many trials and struggles much to endure and many mistakes to make tomlewd me to where I am now in faith a lifetime in a world not ours but enduring in faith that first seed has grown into something better and more fruitful

the key to all of it was tbat Jesus was right there with me planting that seed and when I fell he picked me up and encouraged me , when I took a wrong path he rebuked and corrected my compass , when I got lazy he poked me with a prod , when I had no strength he picked me up and carried me , when I did good he blessed and praised me like a son , whe. I did wrong willingly he admonished me and I’ve felt his rod more than once

what I’ve found is I forgot everything but Jesus and his gospel and now he’s still right here with me still ready to help me correct me teach me embrace me lift me comfort me rebuke me

Its a lifetime and for me it has been a wild ride ups and downs and all around truly a broken road but it lead somewhere tonthe top of a mountain where I can see better things ahead even as I’m old I have more hope of a future than when I was but a lad filled with wonder towards this world

sits really about what Jesus has done for us , is doing in us , and where he’s leading us and whether we’re willing to follow where that leads

“Yes, it does matter whether God may give someone a repentant heart by how we present it, in meekness, as God may deem that act alone, or along with other kind acts believers have shown unbelievers, enough for them to have believed. “

yes brother kindness is defiantly good but to come to repentance we also have to accept our need for it sometimes we just have to speak the truth so for instance someone who really believes the Bible may need to hear this truth in order for them to realize how important repentance is

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see this kind of thing ( that is repetitive in scriptire ) isn’t there to offend us or sound rude , but it’s an important part of the doctrine of the gospel that if we accept it as a believer it’s going to begin making us think that we need to pay attention to what we do and don’t do because we have to answer for it and will reap that which we sow in our earthly life

the truth needs to be heard along with everyone being nice and doing kind acts in his name

If we think we don’t have to answer for what we do and won’t reap what we sow , it’s extremely important to accept what the scripture declares about that. It isn’t always pleasant people see a Christian and realize they are easy to target because they don’t believe in retaliation easy to defame because they bless those who say bad things about them ect

a we’re not all there yet but it’s about persevering and pressing forward towards the goal and trusting jesus to be there with us and see it through

I agree. Your life sounds similer to mine with the winging roads and such. I'm finding that old road is straightening itself and I'm grateful for that.
I vove the verse that says,

He will not crush the weakest reed
or put out a flickering candle. He will bring justice to all who have been wronged. Isa.42:3

He didn't let my light go out. Like you, he was with me every step. I'm thankful we're growing in him.

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it:

for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If a person accepts things like this as truth , what would happen to thier thinking ?

The scriptures are many that instructs the born again child of God what to do.

One cannot know Jesus and then fall away, under the banner of Calvinism.

he does not lose his eternal inheritance.

The Scriptures are also many that instruct the lost sinner what to do: come to Jesus.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

The lost sheep of the house of Israel, are lost sinners. They are lost from their fellowship with God, but not from their eternal inheritance.

The natural man, before God quickens him to a now spiritual life, cannot repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws,

There is a World that God loves, and there is a world that God hates. Many descriptions of the world that God hates is recorded in John 17.

The scriptures are many that instructs the born again child of God what to do. If they are obedient to his instructions they will be delivered (saved) from God's chastening. This is a deliverance (salvation) received here in this present world

The Scriptures are also many that instruct the lost sinner what to do: come to Jesus.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

I have the same issue regarding, called and chosen, as you do.

It is impossible to hear God calling you, to understand the reconciliation that Jesus provides. Then to end up, chasing wealth instead and not being chosen.

As quoted below.

Mat 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. G1588

Called but not chosen is a refutation of divine determination.

Can you explain the difference between, "called" and "chosen", in the two verses you quoted below?

Mat 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. G1588

Mat 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen. G1588

2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

Sure does.

Hebrews 10:26
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”

I’m not really sure what you’re saying are you saying that Joseph prince thing where you’re going to suffer on earth if you don’t obey , but still inherit the kingdom and eternal life ?

asp basically anyone who says “ I believe “ they’re forever going to be saved and inherit the kingdom of God but if they go on in disobedience they will suffer things on earth ? But it’s not going to matter what they do when it comes to eternal salvation ?

aim just wondering if your saying there’s a salvstion for earthly life and you need to obey for that ? But whether you obey or not you’re saved for ever ?