Trouble with friends
- Thread starter Kaylz
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You can vehemently protest all you want....
As far as my wife goes...she can probably write my exact thoughts except better because "I are we" ALWAYS. We share the same thoughts.
Simple lesson from Genesis: "It is not good for man to be alone"
Man and woman are still created to live symbiotically with each other. The model has not changed just because we have modern conveniences. It has everything to do with our attitudes that you can't see because you have yet to live in symbiosis with anyone. (Even though you were once married)
And where you and Lynx both are all upset about the reflection I just put up for you to see...I didn't create the image. I simply noticed it. I didn't want that image coming from me when I walked into the classroom.
Where I'm not one for "following the crowd" simply because they are the crowd "it is not good (not holy, not pure) for man to be alone. And being single is being alone.
You currently believe you are better being single. I completely disagree. There is another aspect of life you haven't had that is better. And where I know that your married female friends complain about their husband's constantly they haven't exactly found it either. Their assumptions about the singles always being available for free babysitting is another big red flag that they still have yet to learn the "good" parts of being married.
I'm sorry you are not always right (except in your own mind) on this one. I/we am going to side with God and not you in my opinion on this one.
There is a very good life of symbiosis that exists with married couples. It happens. It exists. It is good. Together, in marriage, we become more than the sum of our parts. It's God's design....take it up with Him if you don't like it.
As far as my wife goes...she can probably write my exact thoughts except better because "I are we" ALWAYS. We share the same thoughts.
Simple lesson from Genesis: "It is not good for man to be alone"
Man and woman are still created to live symbiotically with each other. The model has not changed just because we have modern conveniences. It has everything to do with our attitudes that you can't see because you have yet to live in symbiosis with anyone. (Even though you were once married)
And where you and Lynx both are all upset about the reflection I just put up for you to see...I didn't create the image. I simply noticed it. I didn't want that image coming from me when I walked into the classroom.
Where I'm not one for "following the crowd" simply because they are the crowd "it is not good (not holy, not pure) for man to be alone. And being single is being alone.
You currently believe you are better being single. I completely disagree. There is another aspect of life you haven't had that is better. And where I know that your married female friends complain about their husband's constantly they haven't exactly found it either. Their assumptions about the singles always being available for free babysitting is another big red flag that they still have yet to learn the "good" parts of being married.
I'm sorry you are not always right (except in your own mind) on this one. I/we am going to side with God and not you in my opinion on this one.
There is a very good life of symbiosis that exists with married couples. It happens. It exists. It is good. Together, in marriage, we become more than the sum of our parts. It's God's design....take it up with Him if you don't like it.
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You wait almost a month, and then start up again with that condescension crap?
Yeah, a great marriage is a wonderful thing. Nobody's saying it ain't.
When you start trying to pat single people on the head and say "poor little deprived child, I feel sorry for you" that's when it gets irritating.
The fact that a great marriage is a wonderful thing does not make any of your condescending stuff any more valid.
And you STILL owe some people apologies.
Yeah, a great marriage is a wonderful thing. Nobody's saying it ain't.
When you start trying to pat single people on the head and say "poor little deprived child, I feel sorry for you" that's when it gets irritating.
The fact that a great marriage is a wonderful thing does not make any of your condescending stuff any more valid.
And you STILL owe some people apologies.
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The thing is, being married does not necessarily mean one is not alone. Like the co-worker who had to drive herself to all her cancer appointments by herself, because her husband couldn't stand and would not tolerate anything having to do with sickness or mortality.
I believe I am better off being single WITHIN CERTAIN CONTEXTS. Would I love to meet the right person and right situation? Of course! But it just hasn't happened and marriage isn't a bag of chips in which you can just go to the grocery store, pick out a variety that suits you, and toss it in your cart.
I've actually had a couple of guys (not at the same time, lol,) talk to me about getting married over the years. Not an official proposal, but discussions of, "What would you think if we got married, and what would you do if I proposed," etc. I'm thankful they talked to me BEFORE trying to propose, that's for sure. For whatever reason, it just didn't work out. Sometimes it was the wrong person (alcoholic, porn addiction, etc.,) sometimes it was the wrong situation (family issues, distance that made it hard to care for parents, etc.,) and sometimes it was both.
So in the context of avoiding what I believed would be complete disaster, I am glad to be single. But that doesn't mean I couldn't or wouldn't marry again. I'd just like to be able to have a much better fighting chance from the start than what I've encountered so far.
I certainly don't believe in either marriage or singleness being superior over the other; it's just what works for different people at different times and in different situations. The entire rest of my family is married (for anywhere from 20 - nearly 60 years,) so I definitely have nothing against marriage or how it can work.
I do believe that I've made the right choices FOR MYSELF thus far from the options I've been presented with. But if the options changed, my choice might very well change, too. Single life is working out NOW, but that doesn't mean it couldn't change in the future. It's funny that you wrote what you did, because I've often asked God if I SHOULD be married, and have told Him many times to change me if that's the case.
For several years, I even told God I would not make any major choices in my life without either my father's or a good male friend's blessing, just to stay used to the idea of being submissive to a male head of the household. It kind of faded away though, because they both know me well enough in that I can't think of a single situation in which we talked it out and disagreed on what I should do.
But I always try to make the disclaimer that I can only speak for my own self, and I always feel it's important that different things will work for different people, whether life knocks them off their intended path or not.
What's working for me might not work for other people. It might have worked out just fine for someone to marry an alcoholic who saw nothing wrong with porn and had an enabling family. Or it might have worked to marry someone who lived across the country, but it meant one set of our parents would have been left alone and vulnerable. This could have worked for others, but for me, I knew that wasn't the right choice.
As for God saying that it's better not to be alone... But that doesn't mean He says everyone will or should get married, either. At the temple, Anna, who greeted the infant Jesus, had a husband for only a few years, and apparently spent the rest of her life single. For whatever reason, God did not present her with another husband and so she was indeed alone, though she found a purpose that God undoubtedly approved of.
Even Mary, Jesus's own earthly mother, may have lived a significant part of her life single. I realize it's only speculation, but it's been said that since Jesus told John to take care of her while on the cross, Joseph had likely passed away.
Marriage is not a guarantee, nor is it promised to last, even though, as you say, God says it's not good to be alone. God might say it's not good to be alone but He doesn't say you can count on getting or having a spouse by your side all your life to solve that problem. And when other situations happen, it doesn't mean He will replace your spouse (and even Paul said he believed some widows were better off being alone and not remarrying,) so there can be a time and place to be single. I don't believe in either one being ultimately "better," but I do believe in trying to make one's own person situation into the best it can be. And if that situation changes, then there is the task of trying to find God's purpose there as well.
The thing that surprised me most about your post was that I then wasn't sure why you spent a lot of time with singles here in the forum if you look down on them so much. With so many other married people here who hang out in singles but don't seem to think we're such a pathetic lot, I was genuinely caught off guard that you see singles as being bottom-scraping inferiors.
It reminds me of a guy we had here a few years ago who came in and told singles that our purpose was to "worship marrieds (worship was the actual word he used,)" and offer to "serve them in any way possible" by cleaning their houses and babysitting their children all for the privilege of being around glorious marrieds. (I don't know if he was just trolling, but he doubled down when the single parents gave him some pushback.) Or the guy who used to come into the Singles forum and old chat because he would always take over with one of his ever-prepared sermons.
But that was our only purpose to them -- servants and an audience to preach at.
It's disheartening that some people don't talk to us because they see us as regular people, but something to be pitied and made into a charity.
But, everyone has their opinion for their own reasons.
I'm just grateful for the marrieds here who hang out with us because they genuinely like us and apparently see some value in us, rather than thinking we are the terrible second-bests.
And, I have found that one of my purposes as a single is to help care for those who, whether through divorce, desertion, or death, are transitioning into being one of the "alone," because yes, God says it's not good to be alone -- which means we all have a responsibility to help those who are in our own way, whether we are married or single.
I believe I am better off being single WITHIN CERTAIN CONTEXTS. Would I love to meet the right person and right situation? Of course! But it just hasn't happened and marriage isn't a bag of chips in which you can just go to the grocery store, pick out a variety that suits you, and toss it in your cart.
I've actually had a couple of guys (not at the same time, lol,) talk to me about getting married over the years. Not an official proposal, but discussions of, "What would you think if we got married, and what would you do if I proposed," etc. I'm thankful they talked to me BEFORE trying to propose, that's for sure. For whatever reason, it just didn't work out. Sometimes it was the wrong person (alcoholic, porn addiction, etc.,) sometimes it was the wrong situation (family issues, distance that made it hard to care for parents, etc.,) and sometimes it was both.
So in the context of avoiding what I believed would be complete disaster, I am glad to be single. But that doesn't mean I couldn't or wouldn't marry again. I'd just like to be able to have a much better fighting chance from the start than what I've encountered so far.
I certainly don't believe in either marriage or singleness being superior over the other; it's just what works for different people at different times and in different situations. The entire rest of my family is married (for anywhere from 20 - nearly 60 years,) so I definitely have nothing against marriage or how it can work.
I do believe that I've made the right choices FOR MYSELF thus far from the options I've been presented with. But if the options changed, my choice might very well change, too. Single life is working out NOW, but that doesn't mean it couldn't change in the future. It's funny that you wrote what you did, because I've often asked God if I SHOULD be married, and have told Him many times to change me if that's the case.
For several years, I even told God I would not make any major choices in my life without either my father's or a good male friend's blessing, just to stay used to the idea of being submissive to a male head of the household. It kind of faded away though, because they both know me well enough in that I can't think of a single situation in which we talked it out and disagreed on what I should do.
But I always try to make the disclaimer that I can only speak for my own self, and I always feel it's important that different things will work for different people, whether life knocks them off their intended path or not.
What's working for me might not work for other people. It might have worked out just fine for someone to marry an alcoholic who saw nothing wrong with porn and had an enabling family. Or it might have worked to marry someone who lived across the country, but it meant one set of our parents would have been left alone and vulnerable. This could have worked for others, but for me, I knew that wasn't the right choice.
As for God saying that it's better not to be alone... But that doesn't mean He says everyone will or should get married, either. At the temple, Anna, who greeted the infant Jesus, had a husband for only a few years, and apparently spent the rest of her life single. For whatever reason, God did not present her with another husband and so she was indeed alone, though she found a purpose that God undoubtedly approved of.
Even Mary, Jesus's own earthly mother, may have lived a significant part of her life single. I realize it's only speculation, but it's been said that since Jesus told John to take care of her while on the cross, Joseph had likely passed away.
Marriage is not a guarantee, nor is it promised to last, even though, as you say, God says it's not good to be alone. God might say it's not good to be alone but He doesn't say you can count on getting or having a spouse by your side all your life to solve that problem. And when other situations happen, it doesn't mean He will replace your spouse (and even Paul said he believed some widows were better off being alone and not remarrying,) so there can be a time and place to be single. I don't believe in either one being ultimately "better," but I do believe in trying to make one's own person situation into the best it can be. And if that situation changes, then there is the task of trying to find God's purpose there as well.
The thing that surprised me most about your post was that I then wasn't sure why you spent a lot of time with singles here in the forum if you look down on them so much. With so many other married people here who hang out in singles but don't seem to think we're such a pathetic lot, I was genuinely caught off guard that you see singles as being bottom-scraping inferiors.
It reminds me of a guy we had here a few years ago who came in and told singles that our purpose was to "worship marrieds (worship was the actual word he used,)" and offer to "serve them in any way possible" by cleaning their houses and babysitting their children all for the privilege of being around glorious marrieds. (I don't know if he was just trolling, but he doubled down when the single parents gave him some pushback.) Or the guy who used to come into the Singles forum and old chat because he would always take over with one of his ever-prepared sermons.
But that was our only purpose to them -- servants and an audience to preach at.
It's disheartening that some people don't talk to us because they see us as regular people, but something to be pitied and made into a charity.
But, everyone has their opinion for their own reasons.
I'm just grateful for the marrieds here who hang out with us because they genuinely like us and apparently see some value in us, rather than thinking we are the terrible second-bests.
And, I have found that one of my purposes as a single is to help care for those who, whether through divorce, desertion, or death, are transitioning into being one of the "alone," because yes, God says it's not good to be alone -- which means we all have a responsibility to help those who are in our own way, whether we are married or single.
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Well by that logic Jesus spent the whole of his human life in a state that was not good (not holy, not pure). Funny how Jesus was never alone though. Almost like people can relate to each other and have community in more ways than just marriage or something.
Perhaps or perhaps the Bible has 1 Corinthians 7 as well as Genesis 2 because God's best can vary between people. And having heard the stories I am convinced that seoulsearch and many others are better off being single than being in the marriage or relationship situations they had.
Right back at you. Ever read Matthew 19:10-12 ? The part where after listening to Jesus talk about marriage and divorce the disciples conclude it's better not to marry and Jesus doesn't tell them they're wrong. He just tells them that not everyone can accept that (maybe you're in that category).
. In the best marriages, yes, no one disputes that. There have also been some amazing kingdom things done by single Christians. And there have been Christian men who abused their wives and children and Christian singles who are more like Samson or the Proverbs 7 woman. Where you really go wrong is seeing marital status as a character or obedience issue rather than seeing it as the setting for where an individual lives out their character.
And honestly those of us who have been around a while know that the married who speak disparagingly about all singles are usually those who are unhappily married and jealous of us getting the advantages of singleness so they want to bring us down by making a big deal about the disadvantages of our state.
And that whole thing about you and your wife being completely of one way of thinking, reminds me a lot of the Collinses in pride and prejudice: he says they're of one mind and blissfully happy; she confides in her friend that she encourages him in multiple pursuits with the effect of them seeing each other as little as possible and she finds the solitude quite comfortable.
Perhaps or perhaps the Bible has 1 Corinthians 7 as well as Genesis 2 because God's best can vary between people. And having heard the stories I am convinced that seoulsearch and many others are better off being single than being in the marriage or relationship situations they had.
Right back at you. Ever read Matthew 19:10-12 ? The part where after listening to Jesus talk about marriage and divorce the disciples conclude it's better not to marry and Jesus doesn't tell them they're wrong. He just tells them that not everyone can accept that (maybe you're in that category).
. In the best marriages, yes, no one disputes that. There have also been some amazing kingdom things done by single Christians. And there have been Christian men who abused their wives and children and Christian singles who are more like Samson or the Proverbs 7 woman. Where you really go wrong is seeing marital status as a character or obedience issue rather than seeing it as the setting for where an individual lives out their character.
And honestly those of us who have been around a while know that the married who speak disparagingly about all singles are usually those who are unhappily married and jealous of us getting the advantages of singleness so they want to bring us down by making a big deal about the disadvantages of our state.
And that whole thing about you and your wife being completely of one way of thinking, reminds me a lot of the Collinses in pride and prejudice: he says they're of one mind and blissfully happy; she confides in her friend that she encourages him in multiple pursuits with the effect of them seeing each other as little as possible and she finds the solitude quite comfortable.
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Now if you put seoulsearch on ignore, we might really see something... 
Lol.
Oh, I'm sure no one would miss out on hearing me pratter on.
I actually encourage people to put me on ignore quite regularly. In my 14 years on CC, I've only put 3 people on Ignore that I can remember, and that was in my early days, so none of them are here anymore -- at least, not under the same names. And I tried to never put anyone on Ignore without a good reason. One was a married guy who was trying to strike up conversations with me in the threads.
I gave up utilizing Ignore though because it's really hard to know what's going on in some of the discussions without being able to read every post. I've seen people come in oblivious to what's really being talked about because they probably have half the people in the thread on Ignore, but they try to comment anyway. Not that this is a bad thing at all for some, it's just that it's hard to comment on anything without sounding clueless if you can't read what people are talking about.
There have been times when it's been like a badge of honor to be put on some people's Ignore lists -- I don't mind at all, and as I said, I've asked some to do so if my posts were that bothersome.
All we can do is carry on and keep posting.
I just wrote in another post about one of the 3 people I put on Ignore in the 14 years I've been here. He was a married man who would try to talk to me (ask me questions, make teasing remarks, try to initiate interaction, etc.) through the forums. I also had a picture of myself up at the time and he made comments on that. It was all a little "too friendly" for my comfort levels and so I put him on Ignore.
It also came out later (in the posts he wrote) that he was very unhappy in his marriage, complained of feeling alone, and hinted at looking for a replacement for his wife.
Back when this site had regular chat rooms, there was also a problem with marrieds coming into the Singles room looking for their next spouse, even while their current spouse was just across the room. I remember being there one night when a mod came in and made each of us answer publicly that we were single, because of this very issue. The mod said they were having a major problem with people coming to the site and leaving their spouses for someone else, and some were married but claiming to be single.
There was also an issue of some of the married referring (in chat) to their special favorite chatter (the one they had their eye on) as "their CC wife/husband" (the way the world refers to co-workers as a "Work Wife" or "Work Husband.")
This is one of the reasons I rarely post a picture of myself. Not that I'm somehow anything to look at, but sometimes it's just easier.
For being a single who is supposedly "consistently flirty," I guess I'm doing an awfully lousy job.
It also came out later (in the posts he wrote) that he was very unhappy in his marriage, complained of feeling alone, and hinted at looking for a replacement for his wife.
Back when this site had regular chat rooms, there was also a problem with marrieds coming into the Singles room looking for their next spouse, even while their current spouse was just across the room. I remember being there one night when a mod came in and made each of us answer publicly that we were single, because of this very issue. The mod said they were having a major problem with people coming to the site and leaving their spouses for someone else, and some were married but claiming to be single.
There was also an issue of some of the married referring (in chat) to their special favorite chatter (the one they had their eye on) as "their CC wife/husband" (the way the world refers to co-workers as a "Work Wife" or "Work Husband.")
This is one of the reasons I rarely post a picture of myself. Not that I'm somehow anything to look at, but sometimes it's just easier.
For being a single who is supposedly "consistently flirty," I guess I'm doing an awfully lousy job.
This is a mischaracterization of what I've said or ever intended. I am nowhere near that self righteous...ever.
I'm not perfect...never thought myself to be. One of the reasons why I got remarried. And I especially don't look down on people.
Not everyone's sin is as apparent as someone who over eats/doesn't exercise regularly. If only we had neon signs with our sins listed in neon....
For ALL (Meaning EVERYONE including and especially me) have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Some sins, to me, are not as hidden as people like to believe they are when putting on their church mask. Some are like a neon sign blazing away to me. And my fear, when I walked into that class, was that I would pick up those same traits and not see it at the same time.
I HATE the sin within me ALWAYS.
Most of the Western English speaking world has an epidemic of narcissism. It isn't always to a sociopathic level. It used to just be termed as "pride" but it really is not that. It's one of those sins I especially hate the most.
And one of the results of this epidemic is the single parent family being the largest demographic in the population. Guess what? It's our nation too. It's to the point that it's not even recognized anymore.
And where you say that you have good reasons for being single (and I don't doubt what you have said) I, like you, missed some major red flags when I got married the first time. Because I was caught up in my own narcissism at the moment. Those things/attitudes I thought were normal absolutely were things/attitudes that crushed my first marriage. Some people go their entire lives in those sorts of marriages successfully only in not divorcing.
However, I got a wake-up during my marriage. And that infection of the truth(from studying scriptures once again) spread like cancer within me and my marriage became unsustainable for her. Not with condemnation from me towards her. But from the light being cast. (Sorry for the euphemisms but gory details don't need broadcast) The false accusations abounded at me non-stop then. They were some of the worst. The ones I leveled at myself? Those ones were worse because they were true...and I hated them the most when I was single.
It hurt like Hell then....and the cure was more painful than the disease I once had. It still causes me pain to this day. But the new life I have is sweeter than I've ever lived. The struggle never ends just like a drunk still thirsts for a drink. But if I give up....it means I went through some of the biggest, I've ever endured, torture for nothing. I'm not going back...can't go back and not going to recinde my thoughts that married life is better. Especially when I'm still on a honeymoon going on 12++ years now.
I wish for others to find what I've found. And where I'm not you...the only thing I can say is that somehow you can't see well enough to find what I've found. (And if someone doesn't want to find it....well thats another issue all in itself) There are good guys out there...there are good women too.
The world is a messed up place. I get that much...but it's still going...so that means that for God the Juice is worth the squeeze. Meaning that the ideal is still available.
I'm not perfect...never thought myself to be. One of the reasons why I got remarried. And I especially don't look down on people.
Not everyone's sin is as apparent as someone who over eats/doesn't exercise regularly. If only we had neon signs with our sins listed in neon....
For ALL (Meaning EVERYONE including and especially me) have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Some sins, to me, are not as hidden as people like to believe they are when putting on their church mask. Some are like a neon sign blazing away to me. And my fear, when I walked into that class, was that I would pick up those same traits and not see it at the same time.
I HATE the sin within me ALWAYS.
Most of the Western English speaking world has an epidemic of narcissism. It isn't always to a sociopathic level. It used to just be termed as "pride" but it really is not that. It's one of those sins I especially hate the most.
And one of the results of this epidemic is the single parent family being the largest demographic in the population. Guess what? It's our nation too. It's to the point that it's not even recognized anymore.
And where you say that you have good reasons for being single (and I don't doubt what you have said) I, like you, missed some major red flags when I got married the first time. Because I was caught up in my own narcissism at the moment. Those things/attitudes I thought were normal absolutely were things/attitudes that crushed my first marriage. Some people go their entire lives in those sorts of marriages successfully only in not divorcing.
However, I got a wake-up during my marriage. And that infection of the truth(from studying scriptures once again) spread like cancer within me and my marriage became unsustainable for her. Not with condemnation from me towards her. But from the light being cast. (Sorry for the euphemisms but gory details don't need broadcast) The false accusations abounded at me non-stop then. They were some of the worst. The ones I leveled at myself? Those ones were worse because they were true...and I hated them the most when I was single.
It hurt like Hell then....and the cure was more painful than the disease I once had. It still causes me pain to this day. But the new life I have is sweeter than I've ever lived. The struggle never ends just like a drunk still thirsts for a drink. But if I give up....it means I went through some of the biggest, I've ever endured, torture for nothing. I'm not going back...can't go back and not going to recinde my thoughts that married life is better. Especially when I'm still on a honeymoon going on 12++ years now.
I wish for others to find what I've found. And where I'm not you...the only thing I can say is that somehow you can't see well enough to find what I've found. (And if someone doesn't want to find it....well thats another issue all in itself) There are good guys out there...there are good women too.
The world is a messed up place. I get that much...but it's still going...so that means that for God the Juice is worth the squeeze. Meaning that the ideal is still available.
I have been labeled a flirt all my life . 58 years of marriage only one man in my life in a personal way. Nope been for ever that i was 40
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I appreciate the raw honesty of your post and nodded enthusiastically when you said that the cure is often more painful than the disease.
And sometimes it can be difficult to discern which is the disease, and which is the cure.
I know in one post you said that marrieds are always thinking of others while single are always thinking of themselves.
This may be true for some, one of the biggest dilemmas of all the singles I know is how to care for their parents/vulnerable family members, forcing them to choose their parents' happiness and well-being over their own. Most of the singles I know are living lives of regular and sometimes constant self-sacrifice for others.
If a person has to choose between what they might think could be a great situation (marriage,) or the thought of their parents suffering because of it, what do they choose?
Would one choose to get married and move across the country, meaning that one's parents either have to struggle alone, or try to force their parents to move, when it would disrupt their entire lives for the remaining years they have?
Singleness CAN be a choice, and at times, the hardest one of all.
But sometimes it IS the right one. "Honor thy father and mother..." the 4th commandment, which I have known since childhood.
And most especially regarding my parents who chose to adopt me and are the very reason for my survival when my biological parents left me behind.
We all face dilemmas like this. I remember you writing about you and your wife tackling similar issues with your in-laws. You are struggling with the thought of a happier, more independent life with your wife -- or taking on the responsibility of your in-laws, when they have been the ones to make irresponsible choices.
In these kinds of situations... Which is the cure (a higher quality of life for someone else,) or the disease (a desire to follow our own higher quality of life, but at the cost of others -- especially in your case, when they've made their own troubles?)
I don't have the answers.
All I know is that we all do our best to study, pray, and follow God's direction as much as we can, whether it leads us down a single or married path.
And in the end, God will have a reward for each of us according to our circumstances, whether by our own choice or those of others.
The point is that not all singles are flirty and always seeking attention.
Sometimes it's the marrieds who fit into that category, and not in a good way, as in with their spouse, as you stated -- but for the purpose of finding a replacement, or just the attention their own spouse isn't giving them.
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