First Thread: ☕🙂👍📖 Should the Bible Be the Text Book?

Ephesians 4:11-12 (KJV)

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

i gave you two.
if two witnesses are insufficient for you, I'll give you 4 more.

so give me one good reason to pursue ignorance.


good on ya.

but ya ain't speaking by Him when you reject the value of education.

Mat 23:34
“Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,

Worldly education is for this world -----it cannot discern Spiritual Education that is only given by and through the Holy Spirit -----

You either believe this scripture or you don't ---man made Education will never teach you Spiritual things ----

it's not the study of cosmetology or economics or political science you are pooh-poohing.

it's literally the study of scripture you are preaching should not be undertaken.

it's one thing to say that God is capable of miraculously filling people with supernatural learning and knowledge.

it's quite another to reject actively studying and discourage others from doing so.

none of us deny the power of God, but it is the Spirit of God Who said this:

"whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope"

does this mean you lack faith if you read your Bible?


i am thankful we have so much opportunity and resources to study these things!

Can you teach me about the the last few hundred years of history concerning the development of pietism vs. scholasticism in the church and how it colors your viewpoint on Biblical education?

i think it would be quite fruitful towards us all understanding what is happening in this thread.

Being both brilliant and a Bible expert really can come in handy. I mean just look at Paul.
The guy did a lot of damage to Satan's doings that's for sure.

Nice try ---but you conveniently left out the rest of that passage --------no man made Seminary will ever give you the right study to show yourself to God Approved ------only the Holy Spirit can do that with the Right Spiritual education to Preach the truth of God's word -----

2 Timothy 2:15

Amplified Bible

15 Study and do your best to present yourself to God approved, a workman [tested by trial] who has no reason to be ashamed, accurately handling and skillfully teaching the word of truth.


I say ------Fools despise Spiritual Knowledge -----but Fools love the the Worldly knowledge they can get from the Natural man's Seminary Schools -----that gives only worldly views of what they think God's theology is about ----

The Bible that we have today is here because great men of God took the time to study little bits of various types of paper, sometimes as small as a quarter, and piece them together, translate and transcribe them into the scriptures that we study today. Everyone involved studied at the feet of those who came before them.

Just as Jesus prepared his disciples, Christian schools, Colleges, Universities, and Seminaries continue today preparing the disciples to recognize and share God's Word.

I consider preachers without an education in God's word, people who spread their own opinions. I suggest that anyone who feels called to preach God's word, prepare himself by learning his word.

We are feasting on a veritable smorgasbord of Biblical truth today. Call us blessed.
The great trials of our forebearers will gain them bounteous reward at the Bema seat.

WOW your comparing Jesus teaching His disciples ---how to pray ---how to cast out demons --How to Discern False teachers ----how to heal the Sick ------how to rely on the Holy Spirit to guide them and
protect them and bring into remembrance all that Jesus said to His disciples ---teaching them through parables so that the natural man could not understand the mysteries of the Scriptures -----Jesus was God 100% as well as 100% human and your comparing what Jesus taught his Disciples ------

To your man driven Seminary Schools that all they can do is read the logos word and give an interpretation of what they think the scripture is saying ------their own opinion ----which is not the truth it is a guess -----

You Wish ----that the man made schools could do as Jesus did ------that is just laughable-----HAhahahhahah!!!!!!!-----the Disciples got their power to preform what Jesus wanted them to do from Jesus Himself -----

People are so ignorant about the difference between the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the infilling of the Holy Spirit ---the Disciples already had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before Pentecost ---Read John 20:19-22 --------at Pentecost ---the Disciples had the infilling of the Holy Spirit ---the Holy Spirit came upon them -----and they spoke in tongues ----so they could preach to all people in their language ----the were anointed with power ----to go cast out demons -heal the sick ---etc ----


YA ------and that is just why people need the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and let the Holy Spirit guide them into all truth ----you ignorance is showing here as to what the Holy Spirit does ------People from a man made Seminary school do spread their own opinion cause most of them don't have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ---they are false teachers teaching what they learned in their man made driven school -----

I say ----here is one ---Gretta Vosper ----Ordained --from a Man made Seminary school ----and had university and held a degree in divinity -----Ya ---sure ---From Satan not God -----a lot of good Seminary school did for her learning God's word -----they turned out a False Preacher who is under Satan not God -----and is sending her flock she preaches to straight to hell ------and thinks it is cool ------She lied to get into the ministry ----she was always an atheist ----master of deception --deceiving instructors right to the end ----

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Reverend
Gretta Vosper
Born
Margaret Ann Vosper
6 July 1958 (age 65)
Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Alma mater

• Mount Allison University
• Queen's University (MDiv)
• 
  
  (m. 2004)

Children 2Church United Church of Canada
Congregations served

United Church in Kingston
St. Matthew's United Church
West Hill United Church

Website grettavosper.ca

Margaret Ann "Gretta" Vosper (born 1958) is an ordained minister of the United Church of Canada who is a self-professed atheist. Her beliefs have caused controversy both within and outside of the United Church
Her published works include With or Without God: Why The Way We Live is More Important Than What We Believe[1] and Amen: What Prayer Can Mean in a World Beyond Belief.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Rohr is another one ---Ordained ----earned a Degree ---and preaches a false doctrine ------preaches that God's love will save all ----

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rohr was born in Kansas in 1943. He received his Master of Theology degree in 1970 from the University of Dayton
He was ordained to the priesthood in the Roman Catholic Church in 1970,

Rohr emphasizes "alternative orthodoxy", a term the Franciscan tradition has applied to itself, referring to a focus on "orthopraxy"—a belief that lifestyle and practice are much more important than mere verbal orthodoxy-----According to Rohr's teachings, following Jesus is the "best shortcut" to salvation, but one does not necessarily have to practice formal Christianity. The key is to "fall in love with the divine presence, under whatever name." Rohr says people are disillusioned with conservative churches that teach that nonbelievers and followers of non-Christian religions go to Hell.

I say ------Again not teachings from God's ordained seminary school ------from Satan's man made Seminary Schools ----sending people straight to hell and not caring -----very Sad -----

And there is many --many more of people like this coming out of Seminary ---Divinity Schools Folks -----

I say ---stay folks with the Holy Spirit teaching you all truth Folks -----and if you do go to a Divinity School --make sure your in instructor is a Born Again Holy Spirit indwelled person ------who teaches you the truth behind God's word -----not their opinion ----or their interpretation ------twisting scripture is a very common practice to make it fit what they believe -----

I see them here every day. Christian uneducated preachers can't find a church, so they start their own. In a few months, their church closes it's doors. The preacher moves to another part of the county and starts another church. In a few months, the preacher moves on again. Sadly few are saved, and many steer as far away from churches as possible.

There is a process to becoming a minister. God calls a Christian to the ministry. He prepares the called to go. He provides the resources needed to carryout that ministry. Then He sends them out.

The only people that don’t have the Holy Spirit are unsaved people! It is the Holy Spirit who leads us to salvation. That same Spirit lives and dwells inside of us. Whether we are a plumber, a math professor, a teacher, housewife, mechanic or preacher.

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved by the Holy Spirit!

“ But ‘when the kindness of God our Savior and his love for mankind appeared, 5 he saved us not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7 And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life.’Titus 3:4-7

Not only does. The Spirit save us (vs 5) but God “pours out on us in full measure” the Holy Spirit.


You keep on saying that only people filled with the Holy Spirit should be preachers, yet your soteriology is a complete mess. Anyone man or woman, child or adult, slave or free, is full of the Holy Spirit. Of course, a young child doesn’t have the experience nor educational background to be a preacher. And some people would exclude women from preaching, based on some bad exegetical arguments. But for arguments’ sake, let’s eliminate the children & youth, women and slaves, whose masters may not approve of them preaching.

We are now left with the entire adult male population. All of them filled with the Holy Spirit, from the moment they were saved. Some choose to go to seminary. And learn more about the Bible, the original languages, hermeneutics or Bible interpretation. Others read their Bibles faithfully. Others don’t read their Bible, but hang onto their “Get out of hell free” card!

All 3 were saved by the Holy Spirit. By your standards, they should all be equally able to preach. Yet, who will do the better job? Not the man hanging on for life. He knows God is there, he has the Holy Spirit. Or he would not be saved. Then there is the man who reads his Bible. Maybe uses Strong’s for some word studies. But he knows nothing of Biblical backgrounds, or ethics, or original languages. Sure, he’s able to preach. Especially to people that don’t read the Bible!

Then there is the guy who doesn’t distain learning. He’s in fire for God. Everything he learns in seminary broadens his understanding of God’s Plan and purposes. He knows the Bible well enough to stop bad theology, usually dreamed up by the guy with Strong’s doing word studies.

Which one will I pick? The one who is not just spirit filled, but has studied to show himself approved.

“Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately.” 2 Tim 2:15 NET

This means the one who has studied the Bible formally. I studied the Bible on my own daily for 25 years. I didn’t begin to understand the Bible, or the ways of God till I went to seminary. Oh yes, I do preach in my church! Why? Because I am qualified because I did go to seminary.

But then, some people are so self centred, they think the Holy Spirit won’t use other believers to teach them. That’s their loss! In fact, one has to wonder if these people who are so against formal learning really are filled with the Holy Spirit? Perhaps they have a rebellious & disobedient spirit, instead of the Holy Spirit?

I’m just glad I got to go to seminary, where I learned so much about God, his word, and how to help people! Seminary gave me tools for ministry & spiritual leadership. I am so blessed!

where did you get this phrase?

You didn't get it by the idea being supernaturally inserted into your brain, but instead, you misquoted the nicene creed - a part of it that came from a man, named Athanasius, who had devoted his life to study of theology in a school for Christians in Alexandria, at the great library.

and you only know this phrase because you heard it from someone who had studied theology in a school for Christians. you were taught by someone who was taught and it was the Spirit in these people transmitting knowledge through history from believer to believer.

in fact almost 100% of the language you or any of us use to talk about the nature of Christ and the Trinity came from people who had studied these things in schools for believers.

monasteries, catechisms, creeds, schools, study groups, even sermons - the church has from the beginning and throughout taught the things of God to each other and done so in depth and detail in centers devoted to study.

why? because the way you get heresies and false teaching and confusion and bad theology is by individuals all by themselves deciding they don't need anyone else's input, that they have a spirit so whatever they come up with on their own is right.

guess why Christ sent out not just 1 apostle but 12? and why they had councils (where all presented their views and it was sorted out what was right)?
because one person on their own without any other input is dangerous - it is not good that man should be alone!

If not for groups of believers organizing together to further their learning and knowledge of God, you don't even have the Bible. you don't even have the OT without the Jews having schools of prophets and scribes who preserved the scripture. you don't have any of the language you use to talk about the nature of Christ - fully God and fully human. you don't even have these ideas.

the Spirit has used schools and centers of study for the entire history of the church. IMO it's incredibly ignorant of you to dismiss the idea of ecclesiastical education as though it's something evil.

to summarize all that's been going on here in the last few pages:

• is seminary education absolutely necessary to effectively preach and teach the Word of God?
  • no
• is it advantageous and reccomended?
  • yes
• is it evil?
  • no; that's crazy talk
• are there good ones and bad ones?
  • of course

student says no teachers are needed while taking on the role of teacher...

Seems rather self-contradictory to me...

1 Corinthians 1:26-29 KJV
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
[27] But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
[28] And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
[29] That no flesh should glory in his presence.

the Bible can be anything as long as I read it