How can one learn?
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So by all means explain why Yeshua would change the laws after making it clear He didn't come to do that. The Law that Yeshua used to correct those that stood against Him was Torah, He lived the Torah in His life, and said we should do the same. I am not going to beat a dead horse, so if you wish to go right ahead. My stand has remained the same for as long as I have been posting on here. I know that at some point your end goal is to see me leave. As that was clearly stated 5 years ago. As I am still here, one would think that you and others iike you would just move on. As to the title, I am sure by now that one can't learn under the frame work of attack, attack, belittle, attack, belittle. Oh you can say you didn't have a hand in that, and you may be right this time. Trust me in a one on one debate, you would not have a leg to stand on.
what ever you wish to follow is fine by me. I will follow my understanding and you, along with an army of people just like you will not change it. So Yes I AM DONE. If you follow my off script you will find that I do have a rebuttal, I just made the choice to do so in a manner that is a lot more constructive. So I ask kindly that you stop with your faults accusations, thinly vailed as they may be. Take a stand and then take that to someone that follows your ideas. As I said, if my was to be changed it will not be by you, or any like you. So now go right ahade and make up what ever you want, I am done with you.
Off script
Rom 10:5For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
From this passage some will say, "See told ya". Yet they will also follow the Torah so long as it fits their wishes. Ask them, is rap, murder, homosexuality, theft, adultery, lying, and so on sin? If they are honest they will say yes, but. Oddly the wod but negates everything that came before it. As we can see, Paul is calling the law righteous, Not a phrase one would use if they seen the law as something to avoid. So if a man does them, and lives by them are they living in sin? NO. You see Yeshua said,
Mat 19:17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
As it stands not once has anyone turned to the words of the one who holds all athority to try and show that law has been removed. Odd really, as it is only through Yeshua that one can be saved, or turned away. Oddly I had asked someone once, Who has the most athority, Yeshua or Paul. The answer I got was Paul. If you want to find that, you will need to look back the threads I posted 5 years ago. If you do, you will find the same thing going on in them as you see here. Fear drives mankind to do everything they can to remove the thing they are scared of. Yet here I am, still doing my thing, and have not changed my understanding on the Law. So do any of you really think you can change it now?
Rom 10:4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
many times as we rad Paul, we find some odd things. As here, it would seem Paul was saying the law has been removed. That places Paul in direct conflict with Yeshua. As Yeshua told us in mat.5:18
Mat 5:18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
We must also keep in mind that Yeshua had to live out the Torah perfectly to be our sacrifice for sin. Had He changed the Law, or removed it, He would be found guilty of sin. Why?
Deu 4:2Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Most reject Torah as they have been told it was evil, and brings sin all their lives. Yet when one takes time to seek out the root of Torah, they find it is based on love, and trust.
I am a long way from done with this, so stick around. Reply if you wish, just understand, I am not going to be distracted from what I feel I have called here to do.
Rom 10:5For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
From this passage some will say, "See told ya". Yet they will also follow the Torah so long as it fits their wishes. Ask them, is rap, murder, homosexuality, theft, adultery, lying, and so on sin? If they are honest they will say yes, but. Oddly the wod but negates everything that came before it. As we can see, Paul is calling the law righteous, Not a phrase one would use if they seen the law as something to avoid. So if a man does them, and lives by them are they living in sin? NO. You see Yeshua said,
Mat 19:17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
As it stands not once has anyone turned to the words of the one who holds all athority to try and show that law has been removed. Odd really, as it is only through Yeshua that one can be saved, or turned away. Oddly I had asked someone once, Who has the most athority, Yeshua or Paul. The answer I got was Paul. If you want to find that, you will need to look back the threads I posted 5 years ago. If you do, you will find the same thing going on in them as you see here. Fear drives mankind to do everything they can to remove the thing they are scared of. Yet here I am, still doing my thing, and have not changed my understanding on the Law. So do any of you really think you can change it now?
Rom 10:4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
many times as we rad Paul, we find some odd things. As here, it would seem Paul was saying the law has been removed. That places Paul in direct conflict with Yeshua. As Yeshua told us in mat.5:18
Mat 5:18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
We must also keep in mind that Yeshua had to live out the Torah perfectly to be our sacrifice for sin. Had He changed the Law, or removed it, He would be found guilty of sin. Why?
Deu 4:2Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Most reject Torah as they have been told it was evil, and brings sin all their lives. Yet when one takes time to seek out the root of Torah, they find it is based on love, and trust.
I am a long way from done with this, so stick around. Reply if you wish, just understand, I am not going to be distracted from what I feel I have called here to do.
you are demonstrating what is absolutely NOT the answer to "how can we learn"
dumping on the whole forum, considering yourself better than everyone.
deciding to ignore everyone because none of the Saints agree with you - but uphold what scripture says "we are not under the Law"
Not good, bro.
If the truth is that salvation means being under the Law and condemned by it, then you need to make that case, not just say we're all dumb and run away.
But if the truth is that salvation means we are set free from the Law and uncondemned, then you need to acknowledge the truth.
How do we learn?
we admit it when we are wrong.
Rom 9:32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Yes I know that no matter how many times I say it, I will be accused of trying to get to heaven by works alone. Some have used this passage to try and make their point. Yet as one looks at the whole of the word, it becomes clear that the stumblingstone is Yeshua. See Is. 7:14, 8:8, Mat. 1:23, Ps. 118:22Lk. 20:18, 1cor. 1:23, Gen. 49:24
Rom 9:31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Why was Israel unsuccessful in their endeavor? They failed to seek it out of trusting, faithfulness. It is only when one acts out of trusting faithfulness that they can find Shalom. Yes Shalom means peace, only it is much more than peace on earth. It is the peace placed in ones heart and mind when they turn to HaShem in trusting faithfulness, and from that they work to show their love by their works. What did Paul say?
Jas 2:18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
We must work to better ourselves, and walk in the Torah. Not to be saved, rather because we are saved. Then I have said this many times in this thread and others.
Rom 8:7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
In this passage we find that our own minds rebel against HaShem, as it wishes to be free of His law. To over come this, one must place their faith in HaShem, and fill their minds with His law. As I have said many times, we all sin. Even if one wishes to say we don't. Though that is a lie some tell themselves, deep down we know it isn't true. Why do you think those that understand this always ask for forgiveness? If sin is real, and counted against us, we seek forgiveness. After all 1John,3:4 and many other passages make it clear that sin is the transpiration of the Law.
Yes I know that no matter how many times I say it, I will be accused of trying to get to heaven by works alone. Some have used this passage to try and make their point. Yet as one looks at the whole of the word, it becomes clear that the stumblingstone is Yeshua. See Is. 7:14, 8:8, Mat. 1:23, Ps. 118:22Lk. 20:18, 1cor. 1:23, Gen. 49:24
Rom 9:31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Why was Israel unsuccessful in their endeavor? They failed to seek it out of trusting, faithfulness. It is only when one acts out of trusting faithfulness that they can find Shalom. Yes Shalom means peace, only it is much more than peace on earth. It is the peace placed in ones heart and mind when they turn to HaShem in trusting faithfulness, and from that they work to show their love by their works. What did Paul say?
Jas 2:18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
We must work to better ourselves, and walk in the Torah. Not to be saved, rather because we are saved. Then I have said this many times in this thread and others.
Rom 8:7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
In this passage we find that our own minds rebel against HaShem, as it wishes to be free of His law. To over come this, one must place their faith in HaShem, and fill their minds with His law. As I have said many times, we all sin. Even if one wishes to say we don't. Though that is a lie some tell themselves, deep down we know it isn't true. Why do you think those that understand this always ask for forgiveness? If sin is real, and counted against us, we seek forgiveness. After all 1John,3:4 and many other passages make it clear that sin is the transpiration of the Law.