Not By Works

They say 'it's not by works, but after 7661 pages you would have fooled me.

You mistake what it means by what it means by what it says, and you CERTAINLY mistake what it certainly what I Believe.
We are not forgiven, and HAVE to Keep the whole law, from that point on. HE PAID for ALL of our sin. Past, Present, and Futhure.
Sure we strife to KEEP the law, but law will be fulfilled by GRACE.

Ephesians 2:8 is a cornerstone verse in Christian theology, summarizing the concept of salvation by grace through faith. It states:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
This verse highlights three key points:

1. Salvation is by Grace: Salvation, the process of being saved from sin and its consequences, is not earned through our own efforts or good works. It is a gift from God, freely bestowed upon those who believe in Jesus Christ.
2. Salvation is through Faith: Faith, not works, is the means by which we receive salvation. Faith is not simply intellectual assent to beliefs; it is a trusting reliance on Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord.
3. Salvation is not of Ourselves: We cannot claim salvation as our own achievement. It is a gift from God, and any credit belongs solely to Him.

In essence, Ephesians 2:8 emphasizes that salvation is a divine initiative, not a human accomplishment. It is God who extends grace and forgiveness, and it is faith in Jesus Christ that allows us to receive these gifts.
This concept of salvation by grace through faith stands in stark contrast to the idea of salvation by works, which suggests that we can earn our way to heaven by our own good deeds. However, Ephesians 2:8 clearly refutes this notion, asserting that salvation is a gift, not a reward.
The implications of Ephesians 2:8 are profound. It means that we can never boast about our own merit or righteousness. Instead, we must humbly acknowledge our sinfulness and our need for God's grace. It also means that we have no room for self-righteousness or judgment of others, as we are all equally in need of God's mercy.
Ephesians 2:8 is a message of hope and assurance, proclaiming that salvation is not beyond our reach. It is a gift freely offered to all who believe in Jesus Christ.

sorry brother. I am not sure what you’re saying, I never accused you of anything. I just made a statement.

Stable Entrances for 300 horse, near the east end of the South Wall of the so-called Temple Mount. It was hidden by Bushes and Trees all these years until very recently when someone with a chainsaw, cut them.


Here is the same wall from the inside, showing the same wall showing the same exits.

Caesar had ordered that every Legion have 300 Horses and Cavalry.
Later on he ordered that every Legion have 600 Horses.

This is a repeat, but it is good to remind you of the this. The above lead you to this photo, taken during WWII by a British Commando. It was in a box in his dresser drawer, and was found by his Daughter after he had died and was posted on line with no copywrite, for those of us to use. It is a little ways inside the picture above of the double Exits. I edited it, to show what I picture to be.



This is a Picture of the Rapture, which may be the way it will take place.

Merry Christmas!

I believe one must believe and be baptised to be saved.

But then why should we not believe that is a works of the Holy Spirit 😔 surely one can not baptise himself into living water.

Surely the water must be made alive to wash away your sins and to be resurrected in Christ.

I mean I would of thought so.

sorry for my comment if it comes across as being trollish.

I have no issues with being a troll in this instance.

Everyone, go and read the parable of the talents of gold. It could not be any more clear.

Everyone can relate to being saved by faith through grace,

I love That Our father Is faithful to do many things for us and I believe his faith is sufficient, and we are told by Jesus to have faith in God also.

I believe that when you have faith in God and believe he Is Good enough to send his comforter the Holy Spirit,

I do believe, if we believe, then the father having faith in us and delivering his promise, will be certainty.

But I believe that everyone will know of his presence, because children have angels who stare back into the face Of God.

The spirit will work with the believer to build them up and cleanse them, to be clean kind patient loving strong mature wise.

This faith is sufficient, in it can keep a person saved untill they are baptised in fire.

I also believe then, Baptism of fire may for some reason may not come before a person dies, but even then they could still go to heaven,

I believe this is what is meant by saved by faith through grace,

That having faith and remaining faithfull is sufficient, because God is faithful, If God is still working with you, who can be against you.

But I believe that most people within a few years would get baptised in water,

I'm sure they would do surely not

I'm convince the baptism of fire comes after baptism of water.

But again I would say that even if it does not The fact That God is still working with you is sufficient 😊

Hope is never lost.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It's actually saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Just popping in to see how this mega thread is going.. I am amazed people are still discussing this topic.. But since i see a steady stream of works salvation people coming onto this site i can see why.. Much admiration to those who stand on salvation by Grace through Faith in this thread..

yes I'm glad you noticed that I'll quote you soon 😊

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. Its just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Their hands are full of their works, and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

So hey hey hey, how's it goin


The bible says believe and be baptised and be saved,

Then the second verse says in the very next verses, says don't believe and be condemned.

Let's talk about the second verse,

Clearly the word baptism is missed out.

What does that mean, what does this imply.

Well one could think, it implies I'm not going to force you to be baptised, and I'm not going to give up on you if you don't get baptised.

It could also imply that I'm not going to make you get baptised straight away.

Basically it could imply many things, like I want you to believe more than being baptised 😊

But what we must understand is the context of the first verse, that to be saved you have to be baptised.

So then

Is it possible that believing means saved by faith.

But baptism means saved by salvation 😊

Winston Churchill says oh yes

Lol look at the user name on the youtube channel, the happy pickle

How this one does this one work 😊

It's a real Tradgedy... They are actually rejecting the Good News ,, The Gospel.. I whince when thinking of their future state of devastion when they face God and try and justify themselves by telling Him about all their wonderful works..

(Matthew 7:22-23) "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? {23} And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

It logically follows that we get water baptized after we believe and are saved, yet Jesus clarified the second clause of Mark 16:16 with, "but he who does not believe will be condemned." Nothing there about a lack of baptism causing condemnation and baptism is not mentioned in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26. *Hermeneutics.

It's like saying, "he who takes his medication and washes it down with water will be made well." Of course, it's not the washing it down with water part that makes a person well. It's the medication, but if water is not available and the person takes the medication dry (been there, done that) they will still be made well "because of the medication."

Sadly, there have been numerous people over the years who have been water baptized yet merely believe "mental assent" in the existence of Christ and even in historical facts about Christ but fall short of believing in Christ unto salvation by trusting in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (Romans 1:16)