the Sabbath

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Jun 18, 2024
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Not replaced, the whole bible hangs on these two principles, but the details of those principles are not deleted which would defeat the purpose. The Spirit violates no laws. 1 John 3:24 John 14:15-16 Acts 5:32
The two are called commandments (two Greatest commandments in the law)
 
Jul 3, 2015
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Not replaced, the whole bible hangs on these two principles, but the details of those principles are not
deleted which would defeat the purpose. The Spirit violates no laws. 1 John 3:24 John 14:15-16 Acts 5:32

Galatians 5:14, Ecclesiastes 12:13, Romans 13:10b The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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We should always love God and Love our neighbour, we should always worship Him.
The sabbath is a wonderful gift.
But it also is a command. It is for our good.
Because of tradition and worldly pressures people don't want to change.

That is why most didn't accept Christ when He came the first time.

Everything that God does perfectly the devil needs to distort.

God gave the 7th day and it was made holy. Gen And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:..
The devil changed it to Sunday, and said it's not something we need to remember anymore.

The Bible is clear that it is the 7th day and we are not told to stop keeping it.

A question for the Catholic church....
Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174
Sunday is when we celebrate the risen Christ.

Though stronger Christians will worship and celebrate Jesus through the week.

Sunday as the day for breaking bread is not compulsory and some churches meet
at other times.

Jesus fulfilled the entire law and the prophets.

Hence, we rest in Christ for our salvation and that is 24/7.

Saved by grace through faith and you contribute nothing and that is the gospel.

You cannot have a conditional gospel based on some level of obedience.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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The two are called commandments (two Greatest commandments in the law)
Those commandments were fulfilled and became the two new commandments.

1 John 3:22
And whatever we ask, we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do
the things that are pleasing in His sight. This is His commandment, that we believe in
the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
The one who keeps His commandments remains in Him, and He in him. We know by this
that He remains in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The two greatest commandments that mankind will ever know.

Believing in Jesus, that is, loving Jesus and loving others as He loved us.

That is justification and sanctification to the maximum.
 
Dec 13, 2023
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The two are called commandments (two Greatest commandments in the law)
Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

The whole bible hangs on the principles of love to God and love to man.

I don’t know how one is going to be able to justify loving God with our all heart, souls and mind by worshipping other gods, vaining His holy name, bowing to false images or breaking God’s holy Sabbath day.

Same with loving our neighbor as yourself- hard to do so, if we are committing murder, adultry, lying, coveting or breaking any of the commandments that relate to how we love man.

At least thats what the scriptures teach

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [a]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

The summary does not delete the details. That’s what I love about God’s Word, it always explains itself, if we allow it to. Love to God and love to man never went undefined 1 John 5:2-3 so we don;t have to depend on our own version of love, when God defined it for us. Exo 20:6 John 14:15 John 15:10
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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Q. Have you any other proofs that they(Protestants) are not guided by the Scripture?

A. Yes; so many, that we cannot admit more than a mere specimen into this small work. They reject much that is clearly contained in Scripture, and profess more that is nowhere discoverable in that Divine Book.

Q. Give some examples of both?

A. They should, if the Scripture were their only rule, wash the feet of one another, according to the command of Christ, in the 13th chap. of St. John; —they should keep, not the Sunday, but the Saturday, according to the commandment, "Remember thou keep holy the SABBATH-day;" for this commandment has not, in Scripture, been changed or abrogated;...

—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 101 Imprimatuer
The two are called commandments (two Greatest commandments in the law)
 
Jun 18, 2024
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Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

The whole bible hangs on the principles of love to God and love to man.

I don’t know how one is going to be able to justify loving God with our all heart, souls and mind by worshipping other gods, vaining His holy name, bowing to false images or breaking God’s holy Sabbath day.

Same with loving our neighbor as yourself- hard to do so, if we are committing murder, adultry, lying, coveting or breaking any of the commandments that relate to how we love man.

At least thats what the scriptures teach

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [a]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

The summary does not delete the details. That’s what I love about God’s Word, it always explains itself, if we allow it to. Love to God and love to man never went undefined 1 John 5:2-3 so we don;t have to depend on our own version of love, when God defined it for us. Exo 20:6 John 14:15 John 15:10
You use the word "principles" but bible states they are "commandments". These two commandments are greater than the 10 commandments.
 
Nov 1, 2024
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You use the word "principles" but bible states they are "commandments". These two commandments are greater than the 10 commandments.
And neither of the two greatest commandments were written in stone

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deuteronomy 6:5
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:18
 
Dec 13, 2023
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You use the word "principles" but bible states they are "commandments". These two commandments are greater than the 10 commandments.
Is the summary greater than the details? It’s the same law summed up Rom 13:9. Love to God IS keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3, we do not define love, God does. Love to God is not a feeling, it is obedience to His law- His version. John 14:15 Exo 20:6 John 15:10 1 John 5:3

It’s going to be tough to make the case I love you Lord with all my heart, might and soul, but I am not going to obey your law.
 

rrcn

Active member
Oct 15, 2023
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And neither of the two greatest commandments were written in stone

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deuteronomy 6:5
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:18
The first four commandments list our duty to God:
  1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
  3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.
  4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
    The last six, our duty to man.
  5. Honour thy father and thy mother.
  6. Thou shalt not kill.
  7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  8. Thou shalt not steal.
  9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
  10. Thou shalt not covet.

[Mar 12:28-34 KJV] 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love [his] neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him [any question].
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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Hence, we rest in Christ for our salvation and that is 24/7.

Saved by grace through faith and you contribute nothing and that is the gospel.

You cannot have a conditional gospel based on some level of obedience.
We should worship, love and rest in Jesus all of the time. But there is a judgement. The gift of Justification is what will save us from our past sins and we can stand righteous covered by Christs righteousness. But sanctification is Christ creating a new heart in us. freeing us from the bondage of sin and helping us to walk like Jesus. this is a process that takes time. Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
The judgement is conditional, not on the gospel but on wheather we accept the gospel by faith.
Faith without works is dead.
If you truely accept the gospel your actions will show it.

Our works do not count or contribute to the cost of our salvation because the price was paid in full by Jesus but if you say you believe and continue to SIN, practice LAWLESSNESS and iniquity you are not walking in Christ.

2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
 
Nov 1, 2024
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The first four commandments list our duty to God:
  1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
  3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.
  4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
    The last six, our duty to man.
  5. Honour thy father and thy mother.
  6. Thou shalt not kill.
  7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  8. Thou shalt not steal.
  9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
  10. Thou shalt not covet.

[Mar 12:28-34 KJV] 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love [his] neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him [any question].
Yeah so what? The 2 greatest weren't written in stone, which is a crucial issue to those who attribute special status to the 10 because they were written in stone by the finger of God. Moses wrote the 2 greatest ones on a scroll
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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The law of love is the greatest, no disagreeing.... but does the law of love negate the 10 commandments.

The law of love was written in Moses's writtings and to the nation of Israel, but you accept them today.
why not the 10 commandments?

Most people do accept the 9 commandments. but the 4th is removed in multiple ways.
 
Jun 18, 2024
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Is the summary greater than the details? It’s the same law summed up Rom 13:9. Love to God IS keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3, we do not define love, God does. Love to God is not a feeling, it is obedience to His law- His version. John 14:15 Exo 20:6 John 15:10 1 John 5:3

It’s going to be tough to make the case I love you Lord with all my heart, might and soul, but I am not going to obey your law.
The summary you see the bigger picture.

God's love can only be manifest under the New covenant law, regulations etc..Not under the Old covenant law.

as all the law and prophets points to Jesus and He can only can be revealed within us by His Spirit through His covenant sealed in His blood on calvary.
 
Dec 13, 2023
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The summary you see the bigger picture.

God's love can only be manifest under the New covenant law, regulations etc..Not under the Old covenant law.

as all the law and prophets points to Jesus and He can only can be revealed within us by His Spirit through His covenant sealed in His blood on calvary.
God’s law never changed in the NC, it was established on better promises Heb 8:6 - still has God’s law in the NC Heb 8:10 God’s law is perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 we are imperfect why He gave us better promises on how to keep His perfect law through His Spirit by our love to Him and cooperation John 14:15-18

You might see the bigger picture in the summary, but the details on how to keep the bigger picture is still required.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree, I’m okay with that. Take care
 
Jun 18, 2024
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The first four commandments list our duty to God:
  1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
  3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.
  4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
    The last six, our duty to man.
  5. Honour thy father and thy mother.
  6. Thou shalt not kill.
  7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  8. Thou shalt not steal.
  9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
  10. Thou shalt not covet.

[Mar 12:28-34 KJV] 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love [his] neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him [any question].
To Love God is to "believe" in His Son.

To Love others is not to harm them in any ways. As it says that Love does not cause harm to others.

The whole teachings of the New Testament is really how these two commandments can be applied.
 
Dec 13, 2023
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The law of love is the greatest, no disagreeing.... but does the law of love negate the 10 commandments.

The law of love was written in Moses's writtings and to the nation of Israel, but you accept them today.
why not the 10 commandments?

Most people do accept the 9 commandments. but the 4th is removed in multiple ways.
Good point, people accept what Moses wrote but not what God personally wrote with His own finger and what was placed inside the ark.
 
Jun 18, 2024
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God’s law never changed in the NC, it was established on better promises Heb 8:6 God’s law is perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 we are imperfect why He gave us better promises on how to keep His perfect law through His Spirit by our love to Him and cooperation John 14:15-18

You might see the bigger picture in the summary, but the details on how to keep the bigger picture is still required.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree. Take care
Sorry but the law has changed. Heb7:12 Not the law under the OC law.
Not the old way of the letter But the New way of the Spirit. Rom 7:6
 
Dec 13, 2023
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Sorry but the law has changed. Heb7:12 Not the law under the OC law.
Not the old way of the letter But the New way of the Spirit. Rom 7:6
God’s moral law has not changed, it will always be a sin to worship other gods or break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19 James 2:10-12 Rom 7:7 Rev 22:14-15 the priesthood and the laws contained in ordinances did change Col 2:14 Hen 9:9-10 Eph 2:15. Heb 7:12 is referring to the law of the priesthood and it tells why it had to change in Hebrews 7. The Spirit violates no laws. 1 John 2:24 John 14:15-18