Was Judas Iscariot saved, or was he not?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dino246 said:
Your god is so weak that He can't sovereignly use unbelievers to accomplish His purposes?
Click to expand...
So, you do preach a Christ that does choose unbelievers toward the true God and Christ.

2Ch 36:23
Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath the LORD God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? The LORD his God be with him, and let him go up.

Cyrus was not an unbeliever toward the LORD. Especially not any chosen apostle of the Lord.

In your straw dog effort to change the argument, only shows the Christ of Satan, that you preach...by your own faith alone.



Dino246 said:
Have you not read the Scripture where He steered Pharaoh, Artaxerxes, Cyrus, and many others to His will?
Click to expand...
And prove your own false teaching of Scripture...by your own faith alone.

The LORD did not lead Pharaoh, Balaam, nor king Saul to His will in their destruction.

Eze 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live:

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Nor does the Lord choose unbelievers to serve Him, only to lead them to their destruction.

And so, you see why I long ago stopped engaging you first, knowing the folly of it. But, if you want to troll on in this new manner, then by all means do so. I still learn more truth of Scripture by correcting the errors of others with Scripture...

Act 8:23
For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
 
ATG said:
True. Jesus knew that when He told Judas to betray Him quickly. Even as Jesus knew Judas was a believer, when He chose him to an apostle.

Jesus Christ does not choose unbelievers in Himself.

2 Cor{6:14}
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the

Nor do unbelievers choose Jesus Christ.

Jhn 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Anyone believing in a Christ that chooses unbelievers in Jesus Christ, is choosing a false Christ for themselves.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

That's why they don't preach Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures, but preach their own Christ according to their own ideology.
Click to expand...
I believe we will find that God in his sovereign dominion over and within his creation uses all things to accomplish his will.

Remember the parable of the potter and the pots. Some are created to serve. So w are made for destruction. Have they any right to question the potter,their maker,as to his purpose for them? The natural mind cannot understand the things of God.

The natural man cannot follow Jesus because they do not understand. Which is why no Disciple was an unbeliever.

Those who were not of the righteous mind and did follow Jesus,left him. Because they were not like the Disciples. Not of that mind.

Judas was chosen by Jesus. Judas as himself did not betray Jesus. Satan within him led him to.

That's scripture. Jesus said,he lost none of the Disciples the Father gave him.

The only lost one was Satan. The son of Purdition who possessed Judas.
 
"For many are called, but few are chosen.”
I believe we will find that God in his sovereign dominion over and within his creation uses all things to accomplish his will.


Remember the parable of the potter and the pots?
Some are created to serve. Some are made for destruction. Have they any right to question the potter,their maker,as to his purpose for them?

God uses all to accomplish His will.

But not all are His Elect.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.



John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Magenta and Dino246
DavidLamb said:
Well, you had written in an earlier post that only Judas shared in the meal. I replied that all of the Twelve shared the meal with Jesus. Your reply to that was to point to Proverbs 3:5, so I asked what that verse had to do with the question of whether just Judas, or all 12 disciples shared that Last Supper with Jesus. Is that clearer?
Click to expand...

Indeed, all of the apostles ate with Him. However, the Lord's warning referred specifically to the one who shared His dish, and among the twelve apostles, only Judas did so.
MATTHEW 26:23
23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.

To fully understand what the Lord was referring to, remember that He said, "I have spoken to you of earthly things so that you may better understand heavenly things."
JOHN 3:12
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

To better understand the Lord's words, consider an earthly example. A king or a president has his own table, and that table belongs exclusively to him. No one has the right to share or use it unless the ruler himself grants permission. To presume to use the king's table is to claim a privilege and authority that do not belong to you. Such an act is considered an act of disloyalty, a clear betrayal of the king or the president.

In the same way, the Lord used an earthly illustration to reveal a deeper spiritual truth. His reference to the one who shared His dish was not merely about eating together, but about an act that carried profound significance concerning loyalty, authority, and betrayal.
 
Dino246 said:
Again, Scripture shows your error:

“To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children.
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NIV‬‬
(emphasis added)
Click to expand...
A person who does not know the one true God is not truly granted understanding from God. True understanding is a gift that comes from God and is given to those who know Him and seek His truth (Prov 2:6).
 
Dino246 said:
Your either-or approach has left you ignorant and self-righteous. There is much you don’t understand because you have closed yourself to instruction.

Meanwhile, you embrace supposed “revelations” from a spirit you call God without realizing that most of the “revelations” you receive contradict Scripture. You have failed miserably to apply the tests that Scripture provides to keep you from deception.

Also, the verse you quoted is not about interpreting Scripture, but rather interpreting events and inventing prophecies.
Click to expand...
A person who does not know the one true God remains a natural person, unable to discern the things of the Spirit.
1 CORINTHINAS 2:12
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
  • Heart
Reactions: Bible_Locket
Dino246 said:
This is another wacky idea invented by you without any actual biblical support.

Your “revelations” are just ravings.
Click to expand...
A person who does not know the one true God will remain blind in the sight of God (John 8:54-56 & John 9:40-41)
 
Dino246 said:
Another wacky contrabiblical idea from your ill mind.
Click to expand...
A person who does not know the one true God does not speak the truth of God's Word, for no truth is found in him.
Instead, he responds with abusive and contemptuous words, much like the Scribes and Pharisees did in the days of the Lord Jesus.
 
Dino246 said:
And you have no proof that it doesn’t.


Your argument is patently ridiculous.
Click to expand...
A person who does not know the one true God is blind.
What light can you expect from someone who is in utter darkness?
That is why he speaks in street language.
 
Bible_Locket said:
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Click to expand...
John6-37s.png

John 6 v 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
:)
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: Bible_Locket and DavidLamb
rewriter said:
Can you please support your claim with scripture, including which people today are guided to the correct translation? Your comment sounds to me a lot like a statement of faith, not necessarily fact, but one which would sound very pleasant to those who consider themselves part of the "in group". and thus superior to the rest of humanity..

And as for your three divisions of humanity. infant, child and adult, when a human is born to you and your wife, are they not a child to the two of you from birth until your deaths? I know that the two born to my wife and I were accepted by me as my children are I still view them as my children even though they are in their 40's. Your distinction between infants and children seems artificial.
Click to expand...
Can you please support your claim with scripture, including which people today are guided to the correct translation? Your comment sounds to me a lot like a statement of faith, not necessarily fact, but one which would sound very pleasant to those who consider themselves part of the "in group". and thus superior to the rest of humanity..

Before I came to know the one true God, I depended on my preacher. I believed that any version of the holy book was sacred, because even if the versions were different, they were all still the Word of God.

But when I came to know the one true God, He taught me which version accurately reflects His words. I also came to realize that some other versions, although still regarded as the Word of God, contain parts that are not fully aligned with the truth.

From that moment on, I followed the version that I believe what God taught me..

For example, in Isaiah 52:6, the Lord God says that His name will still come to be known. Therefore, from Isaiah 52:6 backward, His name had not yet been revealed. However, there are versions of the Holy Scriptures where God already has a name as early as Genesis.
ISAIAH 52:6
6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

I will ask you this: which of these two versions is telling the truth?
It is clear that they do not mean the same thing.

1 TIMOTHY 3:16 NIV
16 Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great:

He appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.

1 TIMOTHY 3:16 KJV
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.



And as for your three divisions of humanity. infant, child and adult, when a human is born to you and your wife, are they not a child to the two of you from birth until your deaths? I know that the two born to my wife and I were accepted by me as my children are I still view them as my children even though they are in their 40's. Your distinction between infants and children seems artificial.

Regarding this, It is not about the children of a husband and wife, what is being referred to are those whom God teaches, described as those who have been weaned from the breast.
The Lord said, “I have spoken of earthly things so that you may understand heavenly things.”
JOHN 3:12
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

In earthly terms, those who are weaned from the breast are infants, not children. Therefore, it is incorrect for the version to use the word “children” to describe those who are weaned.

I will ask you again: which of these versions is true?

MATTHEW 11:25 NIV
25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

MATTHEW 11:25 KJV
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
 
  • Heart
Reactions: dkontner

2 Corinthians 2​

17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2ndTimeIsTheCharm
Godsgood said:
Therefore, what the Lord said was not about Judas alone.
Rather, anyone who shares in the Lord’s table is stealing from Him and will betray the Lord.
It just so happened that among the twelve, it was Judas who shared in the Lord’s table.

MARK 14:18
18 And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me.

Therefore, what the Lord Jesus said is a great warning for all who read and believe in the Holy Book.
Click to expand...
In God’s revelation, with regard to spiritual matters and salvation, all human beings are equal.
MATTHEW 8:9
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

The titles that belong only to God must remain with God alone and should not be claimed by anyone else.
PSALMS 111:9
9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

But why are there people who are called, and who even call themselves, “holy” and “reverend”?

Only God ought to be called Rabbi, Pastor, or Teacher. or Father or Christ.
MATTHEW 23:8-9
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

I will repeat this. This is only about spiritual matters or salvation.
But why are there people who are called, and who even call themselves, Teacher, Pastor, or Father, even though no one calls himself Christ?
Yet we know that the meaning of Christ is Savior. Why do people claim that they can save their fellow human beings by offering prayers to God on their behalf?

Is it not clear that they are putting themselves on the same level as God and taking titles that belong to God?
 
Godsgood said:
In God’s revelation, with regard to spiritual matters and salvation, all human beings are equal.
MATTHEW 8:9
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

The titles that belong only to God must remain with God alone and should not be claimed by anyone else.
PSALMS 111:9
9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

But why are there people who are called, and who even call themselves, “holy” and “reverend”?

Only God ought to be called Rabbi, Pastor, or Teacher. or Father or Christ.
MATTHEW 23:8-9
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

I will repeat this. This is only about spiritual matters or salvation.
But why are there people who are called, and who even call themselves, Teacher, Pastor, or Father, even though no one calls himself Christ?
Yet we know that the meaning of Christ is Savior. Why do people claim that they can save their fellow human beings by offering prayers to God on their behalf?

Is it not clear that they are putting themselves on the same level as God and taking titles that belong to God?
Click to expand...
Great post. I'd like to add, you won't find the word apostle used as a title in the KJV. You'll see them referenced without titles, such as "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, " as an example. You'll never see "the Apostle Paul".
 
Godsgood said:
Indeed, all of the apostles ate with Him. However, the Lord's warning referred specifically to the one who shared His dish, and among the twelve apostles, only Judas did so.
MATTHEW 26:23
23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.

To fully understand what the Lord was referring to, remember that He said, "I have spoken to you of earthly things so that you may better understand heavenly things."
JOHN 3:12
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

To better understand the Lord's words, consider an earthly example. A king or a president has his own table, and that table belongs exclusively to him. No one has the right to share or use it unless the ruler himself grants permission. To presume to use the king's table is to claim a privilege and authority that do not belong to you. Such an act is considered an act of disloyalty, a clear betrayal of the king or the president.

In the same way, the Lord used an earthly illustration to reveal a deeper spiritual truth. His reference to the one who shared His dish was not merely about eating together, but about an act that carried profound significance concerning loyalty, authority, and betrayal.
Click to expand...
Thanks for replying. In this verse:

(Mat 26:23 NKJV) He answered and said, "He who dipped his hand with Me in the dish will betray Me.

I understand Jesus to mean that Judas dipped his unleavened bread into the "sauce" at the same time as Jesus Himself did. I don't see that it has to mean that none of the other disciples dipped their bread at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dino246
dkontner said:
Great post. I'd like to add, you won't find the word apostle used as a title in the KJV. You'll see them referenced without titles, such as "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, " as an example. You'll never see "the Apostle Paul".
Click to expand...
I agree. I am not saying it is wrong to say "the apostle Paul", but it is never used as a title, with a capital A, in the Bible. Another word that tends to be used wrongly as a title is "saint." That word is never used as a title in the Bible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dkontner
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back